Looking for a travel buddy

Cool

Dear god.

You are likely to be inundated with messages from just-joined locals willing to "help" you, both on this thread and in your inbox. What they want to help you with is to empty your pockets in their direction until you are bankrupt. Please, please ignore any such offer. Obviously, not every local who posts is a scam artist, but the bitter experience of many on these boards and similar ones is that the majority is. It's even worse that you classify yourself as an "easy-going person". Don't be while you are in Morocco. Treat every statement as dubious (claims about jobs, skills, villas, education and so on) that the person you are talking to might make. NEVER be tempted to "lend" money. You would never get it back.

If you really need someone to show you round and are not confident alone, ask your riad for the services of a local, trusted guide for half a day to orient yourself, then sally forth alone. Ignore people in the streets coming up to you and offering help/guiding services/special offers in uncle's carpet shop/trips to the countryside. Don't even bother to say no thank you. Look confident at all times and you MUST always look as if you know where you are going, even if you don't. The moment you hesitate or get your maps app out, you are lost. If you are truly stuck, ask someone in one of the hole-in-the-wall shops for help. Don't ask anyone lounging around in the streets.

There are recent threads here stating where you might be able to meet expats.

I've only been living in Morocco for a week or so, but lived in similar countries before. I have learned to trust no one until they can prove themselves, eg., I actually see the villa they claim they possess. So many times I have discovered that the Walter Mitty outpourings have been compete fabrications. Oh, and if someone ever says to you in the street, "Do you remember me?", simply say "No, I don't" and move on. It's the oldest scam in the book and is prevalent in Marrakech. If you hesitate, they'll say something like, "I'm the guy who was in the kitchen at your riad" or whatever and they will reel you in until they come to the sucker punch, "Could you just help me out? My Mum/daughter/Granny needs a scanner and I'm 200 dirhams short". Or something similar.

Lastly, try this resource:--

http://www.travel-buddies.com/

You'll find foreigners here who wish to travel with others. Unfortunately even TravelBuddies is now becoming infested with penniless locals in many countries who pretend to want to voyage and actually want to ponce off the European buddy. Choose carefully.

Follow your suspicious mind, not your easy-going heart and Marrakech, I am certain, will be a fabulous experience!

Thanks. I've spent long periods of time in Morocco on two occasions. I know how it is and thank you.

jaebee wrote:

Thanks. I've spent long periods of time in Morocco on two occasions. I know how it is and thank you.

Can you elaborate on that? Just for my benefit and others...How was your experience? What's best avoided? What to look out for? If you could give us a little idea of what you have learnt during your times there, it would be better for us to pay heed to it now, than learn it the hard way!

XB23 wrote:

jaebee wrote:

Thanks. I've spent long periods of time in Morocco on two occasions. I know how it is and thank you.

Can you elaborate on that? Just for my benefit and others...How was your experience? What's best avoided? What to look out for? If you could give us a little idea of what you have learnt during your times there, it would be better for us to pay heed to it now, than learn it the hard way!

Even more so that the OP is looking for help in Marrakech despite having been to the country for extended periods before.

SvenStockholm wrote:

XB23 wrote:

jaebee wrote:

Thanks. I've spent long periods of time in Morocco on two occasions. I know how it is and thank you.

Can you elaborate on that? Just for my benefit and others...How was your experience? What's best avoided? What to look out for? If you could give us a little idea of what you have learnt during your times there, it would be better for us to pay heed to it now, than learn it the hard way!

Even more so that the OP is looking for help in Marrakech despite having been to the country for extended periods before.

Slightly confused. Maybe you're mistaking Jaebee for the OP?

You are quite right. I am.

-Watch your step! Keep your eyes on the ground in front of you. There is usually a hole in the ground with your name on it! A very deep one too!!

-Never give money to a Moroccan not even as a loan! They will always try to justify it being theirs and will ask for more on top of it. The idea of reimbursement, payback and refund does not exist.

-Always eat from your own side of the serving-plate when eating amongst Moroccans. They find it rude! Better to take a break from the table if you must sneeze or blow your nose. Don't do it if their is food in the same room.

-Do not talk about religion or faith or the King or his father or the Sahara or Jews in public. It's a moderate and sensitive democracy still being run and lobbied by the French, Saudis and Americans. Which means freedom of speech is off limits to Moroccans and any who choose to critized the system(s) they upkeep whether for better or worse.

-Question most if not all of what a Moroccan tells you. Secretly get a second opinion. If you would not, do it in your own country don't do it in Morocco. Seems like there are no rules but, there are! It's a weird combination of Christian and Islamic-related rules which no one ever tells you. You'll find out if you're a big risk taker.

-Bonus: There is no train infrastructure south of Marrakech so plan your bus trips wisely... A day in advance! Long distance white-taxis stop between 19.00 and 20.00 if you are not in a big city or become scarce, in turn making them pricier.

Travel safely!

jaebee wrote:

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-Do not talk about religion or faith or the King or his father or the Sahara or .........
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Might I ask why not talk about the Sahara, the others I could understand, but not the Sahara.

Because of the dispute with the Sahrawi's. I guess he's saying not to talk about the political situation there, rather than about the desert itself.

Indeed XB23! The Sahara is still not a fully resolved political situation. It is in limbo and everyone (from The King to Algeria to the Spanish and even more recently and underhandedly, the U.S.) has been trying to claim it as their own hence people having lived there for ages, and deeming it its own region. In fact, what I can tell you here is that people of the Sahara get certain financial privileges from the Moroccan King that mainland Moroccans do not get. It has sparked some resentments amongst many citizens. To make a long-story short, all take different sides in the story. Being that it is not our own issue, nor do we understand how fragile it is, better to leave it alone. You could end up in a Moroccan jail if you are even suspected of initiating a political debate of any kind.

Thank, it's nice and always appreciated when things are explained.

Although my own motto is never to talk about 'Sex, Race or Religion'
'Although that was originally the saying in our local pub' but I have found that also works quite well in general life.

I was watching a documentary about Petra just the other night and guessed something like that because the different way the Bedouin were treated.
It may well have been in Petra but the Sahara is as we know a BIG place.

I think that this is an exaggeration that a foreigner would end up in a Moroccan jail if they initiated debates about the Sahara. Initiating debates about it and denying its "Marocanité" would be frowned upon by the authorities and long-term residents could find themselves out on their ear. I very much doubt that tourists would be affected by this. These are not the "Years of Lead" of Hassan ll but a relatively enlightened era under Mohammed Vl.

Similarly the Jews. I've already had a conversation about them with Moroccans! I've had a look at some of the Jewish restaurants in Casablanca. There have been several Moroccan-produced films on the subject of the Jews' departure from Morocco. Further to this, there have been demonstrations here against the imminent visit of war criminal Shimon Peres to Morocco and a group of citizens and lawyers has deposed an arrest warrant at the High Court to try to initiate his immediate apprehension should he land. A similar device prevented Amir Peretz from ever returning to his real country, Morocco, many years ago.

I don't think it is an exaggeration at all and, I speak from experience of being detained with my Moroccan friend. For me, they took all of our details and held is in the station, intensely questioned my friend and I, and eventually let me go, before him. My friend must be very careful now and is constantly under watch, could lose his job and livelihood, everything if caught again. It's very easy for us Western people (especially, if we are white) to throw our privileged weight around and pretend that we are excused when we want to impose our own customs on others, in their own country. I say it's a dangerous game. Especially, if those you love and care about are bound to this country. Play the game if YOU want to, Sven!

Phil_h wrote:

Although my own motto is never to talk about 'Sex, Race or Religion'
'Although that was originally the saying in our local pub' but I have found that also works quite well in general life.

Born & brought up in England, one of the earliest things I remember my father told me, similar to your motto, was to avoid any discussion with Brits about "Politics, Religion & Finance". I've taken that advice anywhere I go, and it seems to have some truth to it.

Regarding the Sahara, I agree with Jaebee. Like many, I have my own rules online, so openly discuss religion & politics. In the past, after having watched some clips on YouTube about the Saharawi Arab Democratic Republic (SADR), I decided to post my views on it, sympathizing with their struggles. Some of the reaction I got from Moroccans, lets just say that I was fortunate the discussion was online-based, otherwise I probably wouldn't be sitting here typing this message! I'm glad I learnt not to discuss it before I landed in Morocco, as I probably would of done while in Morocco, and as such, have to face whatever consequences there is to face. I also learnt not to talk about the King, even simple innocent questions. Over there I had simply asked whether he has any health problems, because of the way he looked while we watched the news, and those sitting beside me pretended they didn't hear me. There was an awkward deafening silence. When I go there again, I will take my fathers advice, and avoid all discussions related to politics!

SvenStockholm wrote:

Further to this, there have been demonstrations here against the imminent visit of war criminal Shimon Peres to Morocco and a group of citizens and lawyers has deposed an arrest warrant at the High Court to try to initiate his immediate apprehension should he land. A similar device prevented Amir Peretz from ever returning to his real country, Morocco, many years ago.

There are Israeli's wanted by their government, who have fled to Morocco to avoid facing the music. It seems to be a safe-haven for wanted criminals, due to lack of an extradition treaty, and also their historical connection to the country, and without doubt, the tons of illicitly-gained money they come along with.

Although I do try to avoid getting into 'conversations' on subjects I don't know very much about, such as 'Race, Religion and Finances' but I think where the problem lies is not so much the conversation but when one party which is usually the foreigner (expat) tries to instil their belief onto the other person (the local)

The last time I was in Marrakesh I spent over a hour talking to a 'wino' on a park bench just outside the Mosque (well it was a bottle of something in a brown paper bag) we talked about or I should say 'he talked' about being in the American air force when he was younger and something I had asked about the grounds we were sitting outside of and was give all the information apart from the actual guided tour of the Mosque grounds, but my point is, although we talked about lots of different things and he seemed a very intelligent person, not once was I asked any type of question which could have been shall we say provocative.

Sometimes I think people deliberately go out of their way to offend others, and that is where the problem lies.

jaebee wrote:

I don't think it is an exaggeration at all and, I speak from experience of being detained with my Moroccan friend. For me, they took all of our details and held is in the station, intensely questioned my friend and I, and eventually let me go, before him. My friend must be very careful now and is constantly under watch, could lose his job and livelihood, everything if caught again. It's very easy for us Western people (especially, if we are white) to throw our privileged weight around and pretend that we are excused when we want to impose our own customs on others, in their own country. I say it's a dangerous game. Especially, if those you love and care about are bound to this country. Play the game if YOU want to, Sven!

We all speak from our own experience. "Being detained" isn't the same as being thrown into jail, is it? You haven't told us either what you are meant to have done.

People will talk or not talk. If you ask about the Sahara, they will either respond or not. If you want to argue against its "Moroccanness", then you won't be thrown out if you're a tourist. They'll think you are just stupid. If you want to AGITATE, as a foreigner, against the present position, then yes, you'll probably be slung out, especially if you're a resident expat. As it happens, I think the Moroccan case for retention is incontrovertible; the former Spanish Sahara is Moroccan and should remain so.

With prominent Jews in government and administrative positions, with the public release of "Adieu Meres" and "Where are you going, Moishe?" (both shown on Moroccan TV as well as "Marock" which sympathetically featured heavily a Jewish character) all available in DVD shops, a Jewish community, facilities, restaurants and quarter in Casablanca, what on earth is there about the Jews that makes it forbidden to talk about them? It's nonsense.

As for the King, is the position so much different to that pertaining in Europe, where Queen Mother Elizabeth's colostomy was a secret for so many years? Where delicate matters pertaining to the Swedish royal family are hushed up? Even so, I wouldn't talk in a denigrating fashion about His Maj. Why would I? He's doing pretty well - and I am not Moroccan, it's none of my business.

There is a difference between things being a secret/hushed up, and having the freedom to speak about the Monarchy. The Monarchy can have their secrets, as all humans do, but at least we can talk about them without fear. If you ask someone about the Queen's health, or whether they think the country is better off without them, they won't hesitate to reply, and tell you what they think (some even go as far as to say they detest them), contrast that with speaking about the Moroccan Monarchy to a Moroccan, and their reaction to your question would be very different. Herein lies the issue. Freedom of speech pertaining to certain topics. I doubt Moroccans or anyone else has the freedom to come up with some of the things I hear aimed at our Royal-Family, without facing severe consequences in the country. Hence Jaebee is right to advise us to avoid such a topic, as it does have a price to pay, unlike when it's discussed here and elsewhere in the civilized world.

Detained because my Moroccan friend merely gestured at a synogogue from the other side of the street on our way home, only to be stopped, harassed (completely peaceful but confused and not under the influence of my drug or alcohol , not aggressively frustrated the whole time) and then carried away to the station for questioning and more interrogation.
Yes, you are right on and probably accurate about whatever your views are regarding politics but, I'm not here for that. No matter how hypocritical things can be there or anywhere else in the world, it's clearly safer to NOT talk about the things that I mentioned in my post. It doesn't mean you are assuming someone else's cultural crap, it just means "as in Rome..." By the way, I never said you could not talk about this with Moroccans at all, just not advisable in public. Even must be selective with that because they could and probably would report you if they wanted to and make your trip hell!! I like to remember that It's not "our" democratic evolution while there, it's their own! In "our" democracy, it is always subject and accepted to criticize. Yet then again criticisms can also be subjective!

Good news about war criminal Shimon Peres. He has cancelled his visit to Morocco!

http://oumma.com/220306/face-aux-protes … visite-mar

SvenStockholm wrote:

Good news about war criminal Shimon Peres. He has cancelled his visit to Morocco!

http://oumma.com/220306/face-aux-protes … visite-mar

Not really relevant on this thread is it, unless he's now looking for a new travel buddy.

I know I'm 'The new comer' but feel it still has to be said, from someone who has been here a lot longer than most, I would have thought you would have respected not trying to hijack a thread with a personal feeling.

You could of course start a new thread and talk away to your hearts content.

Phil_h, please try to keep up. The imminent visit of Peres was discussed upthread in the context of advice to the OP to be careful about what and whom he talked about.