Voting

You mistake realistic opinion with jaded views.
I agree, I also cannot stand 'whingers' or people who try to change the way a 'host' country does things.
However, when asked, people deserve to know the reality and people are entitled to their opinions.

well i hope your "life"continues

Have I got this right here? Is he suggesting that I've got a backwards attitude? Back to the days of the Empire, that wasn't us mate, we were one of your colonies.

And from someone who disagrees with the smoking ban and compulsory seat-belts? 

I bet you think that drink-driving should be legalized again too, how dare the state tell you that you can't drink 6 pints of lager on a Friday night and then drive your car home. How dare they interfere in your life.

actually i think he has a death wish - he sure is in the right place for that - anything to do with public safety is a no no

I'm very disappointed the vote went that way. This is something that goes beyond the shores of Malta, so I don't really think it should have been a referendum matter anyway. It should have just been a ban.

As others have said, a ban may well have been ineffectual, just as to an extent the fox hunting ban hasn't really worked that well in the UK. In fact, I know people who have been threatened and intimidated by hunters who continue to go through their land to illegally hunt foxes. However, a ban does send a message to a society and in particular the young.

The standard argument is that banning hunting is an attack on the traditions of a country, but that is ridiculous as we should always be looking to progress our societies to get rid of barbaric rituals that serve no prurpose other than blood sport.

This continues under a 'derogation' of an EU Policy and of course the EU is doing nothing abut it.
Malta should abide by the EU's Birds' Directive which expressly forbids spring hunting and trapping. But Malta has exercised its right of derogation – which is supposed to operate under very narrowly-defined clauses – to allow spring hunting since its EU membership in 2004; except in one year, 2008, following a European Court of Justice ruling which said Malta had broken the terms of the derogation by allowing quail and turtle dove hunting in spring.
The EU could apply a lot of pressure for this to be stopped - but I doubt it will.
However, this is for Malta to sort out.

Pig Ear wrote:

As others have said, a ban may well have been ineffectual, just as to an extent the fox hunting ban hasn't really worked that well in the UK. In fact, I know people who have been threatened and intimidated by hunters who continue to go through their land to illegally hunt foxes. However, a ban does send a message to a society and in particular the young.
.

Hunting foxes in the UK is not illegal .. you can still hunt foxes
what is illegal is hunting foxes with the use of pack animals such as dogs

The Hunting Act 2004 (c 37) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom which bans the hunting of wild mammals (notably foxes, deer, hares and mink) with dogs in England and Wales; the Act does not cover the use of dogs in the process of flushing out an unidentified wild mammal,[4] nor does it affect drag hunting, where hounds are trained to follow an artificial scent.[5]

The Act came into force on 18 February 2005. The pursuit of foxes with hounds was banned in Scotland two years earlier by the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002. Such hunting remains legal in Northern Ireland.

Sorry Rob, I meant specifically hunting with dogs. I have family who have been directly affected by this issue (they are not foxes though).

Pig Ear wrote:

The standard argument is that banning hunting is an attack on the traditions of a country, but that is ridiculous as we should always be looking to progress our societies to get rid of barbaric rituals that serve no prurpose other than blood sport.

Exactly, you can still get stoned to death in Saudi Arabia for committing adultery or practicing homosexuality. Women can be executed in Iran for being raped. Should that be acceptable and tolerated because it is a tradition of their country and religion? If I am being disrespectful towards these countries for not agreeing with their Draconian laws, I can live with that, feel free to criticise me.

The 'hunters' say they shoot to put food on the table, the Spring Hunting rules state:

'Spring hunters are not allowed to kill more than two birds a day - turtle dove and quail - and are limited to four birds per hunter in the whole season'

If they stick to the rules, given the size of Quail and Turtle Doves, they would not have enough for much more than a sandwich each,let alone feed the familly! So that's another excuse 'shot down'.

They must also be unbelievably bad shots given the number of shots you hear.
I've known one chap be at his hide near our old house for about 6 hours a day every day of the season and he must have used  a couple of hundred cartridges by the end of that time.

All for four birds? -  I don't think so!

It would be cheaper to go and buy a chicken!

I'm a terrible shot so is be lucky to hit 1 bird all seasoned alone 4 he he but your right it does seem like it's a waste of money

it would be much harder and much more skilful.....if these guys were restricted to an accurate rifle requiring skilll to hit the target ...rather than the wide spray pattern  shotguns they tend to use  - OMG even I could hit things with one of those.....

But this isnt about skill nor is it sport, nor is it about hunting to put food on the table  - nor do i believe its about a cultural tradition.... - theres absolutely nothing to be proud of by shooting migrating breeding birds out of the sky.

They must be so proud to pass this  sKILL mentality onto their young generations

sorry rant over.

Toon wrote:

it would be much harder and much more skilful.....if these guys were restricted to an accurate rifle requiring skilll to hit the target ...rather than the wide spray pattern  shotguns they tend to use.

Apart from that, legally, many of the shotguns used can fire up to 3 cartridges one after the other.

There have been occasions of these so called 'Hunters' using pump action shotguns!

These are probably held back for use on the big stuff like Robins and Sparrows!

F0xgl0ve wrote:

If they stick to the rules, given the size of Quail and Turtle Doves, they would not have enough for much more than a sandwich each,let alone feed the familly! So that's another excuse 'shot down'.

I've seen loads of fat birds in Malta. 

British Foreign Office urges Britons to be vigilant in Malta rural areas during hunting season

I can only advise ramblers to take the warning serious!

Last year hunters tried to have us ( a group of 5o ramblers, mostly Maltese ) arrested. We were against 14 hunters with guns who quickly rounded up more hunters and called the police who turned up with 4 cars/vans and 14 officers.

THey claimed that we had been walking in private land but the police had to admit that the papers shown by the hunters after being challenged were crap ! On one side it was an interesting experience in the company of such a large group but I don't dare to think of the outcome for individual persons.

Gozo is certainly a no go area. Trapping was already in full blow 3 weeks ago and there are no ALE officers stationed in Gozo. As a majority of Gozitans voted pro-derogation and decided the vote I have made my personal decision to not visit Gozo anymore. It showed it's ugly face that defies any beauty that might have been an argument to visit the island of hunters and trappers previously.

Cheers
Ricky

Unfortunately I must agree. Gozo is rife with hunters; a sad reflection on their cultural values. As one woman told me 'every man must have his hobby'. That is how it is considered here. 
Yet, I still remember all the netting of birds, all over the islands so perhaps some improvement has been made?

is netting a better option  Red?

to me its still prevents the birds doing what comes naturally  - migrating to breed..and once theyre netted what happens then?


As for walking / rambling  - its become a very dangerous hobby / pastime now... but then i think it always has been on Malta an Gozo with gun toting men who just dont care enough for public safety  - preferring to use mob rule to get what they want

Oh bollox, I do a lot of walking, if the weather's good I can do more than 50 miles some weeks, but mostly following the roads and promenades in Malta. I'm thinking about moving up to Gozo which would probably restrict me to country walks, which I wouldn't have a problem with. But I don't want to have to put on a bullet-proof vest every time I go out. 

That is a sad state of affairs Ricky. It's like a real life version of Farmer Palmer in Viz.

OI, GET ORF MOY LAAAAAAND!

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … rol.564039

What a waste of money - "between 80 and 120 police officers and soldiers were deployed".

SOLDIERS!!! It's like living in a war zone.   

Kevlar is the new fabric for 2015 Malta fashion

Toon wrote:

is netting a better option  Red?

Certainly not stating it is, just remembering just about every open space having netting to catch them, even on roadsides,, anywhere and everywhere I would see them. (Back to the 70's mind.)

redmik wrote:

Toon wrote:

is netting a better option  Red?

Certainly not stating it is, just remembering just about every open space having netting to catch them, even on roadsides,, anywhere and everywhere I would see them. (Back to the 70's mind.)

There are still a lot around the west of Gozo near Gharb, Ghasri and San Dimitri.

wasnt suggesting that you were Red just asking.

and what is the point of these nets  - they catch them then what do they do = sell them?

and where is the sport in that - i use the term sport very very loosely

The region between Ta'Cenc - Sannat - Xlendi is very bad ! Avoid going off the regular paths as you will be attacked. All trapping is illegal at the moment ! Trapping is for finches of all kinds ! The season is only open for quails and turtle doves. Decoys and electronic bird callers are forbidden . But not in Gozo! -)))

The clap nets are on the ground and triggered by a wire pulled by an ugly trapper hiding behind walls or in hides. The springs in the nets will cause them to close over birds on the ground.

Keep your eyes open and keep clear of heads hiding. From my experience they will shoot at you as their occupation is illegal . They will shoot over your head so that you will experience a rain of lead pellets and , of course, the shot is quite loud and comes as a surprise.

What do the trappers do with the birds ? Well, you might see hunters skinning them for the cooking pot  - others just catch them to sell them , if the birds survive !

Calling the police on Gozo is not worth the bother. THe trappers are closely linked by mobile phones and warn each other as you pass and dissappear like cowards if you make it look like you are using you phone to report them. Actually it is fun if you are walking in a larger group -)))

But the best response is just to boycott Gozo for the next weeks.

Cheers
Ricky

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … ata.564114 Started already ... Why can't people just follow the rules ...

ricky wrote:

The region between Ta'Cenc - Sannat - Xlendi is very bad ! Avoid going off the regular paths as you will be attacked. All trapping is illegal at the moment ! Trapping is for finches of all kinds ! The season is only open for quails and turtle doves. Decoys and electronic bird callers are forbidden . But not in Gozo! -)))

The clap nets are on the ground and triggered by a wire pulled by an ugly trapper hiding behind walls or in hides. The springs in the nets will cause them to close over birds on the ground.

Keep your eyes open and keep clear of heads hiding. From my experience they will shoot at you as their occupation is illegal . They will shoot over your head so that you will experience a rain of lead pellets and , of course, the shot is quite loud and comes as a surprise.

What do the trappers do with the birds ? Well, you might see hunters skinning them for the cooking pot  - others just catch them to sell them , if the birds survive !

Calling the police on Gozo is not worth the bother. THe trappers are closely linked by mobile phones and warn each other as you pass and dissappear like cowards if you make it look like you are using you phone to report them. Actually it is fun if you are walking in a larger group -)))

But the best response is just to boycott Gozo for the next weeks.

Cheers
Ricky

So you don't think it happens in Malta? Which is where most of the birds are shot or trapped simply because of the number of 'Hunters' involved. It is particularly useful to the 'Hunters' when those who fight to save the rare birds publicise where to find them in the press!

I would go along with Maltese boycotting Gozo, it would be a lot more peaceful on the island!

Ray

didnt last long did it - will JM act and stand by his own words  - who knows?

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi … ata.564114

Of course it happens in Malta as well !

After all Manikata is Malta and even near a main tourist destination - Ghain Tuffieha ( Golden Bay).

Keep clear of Golden Bay as well although the chances are that the hunters will not dare to hunt while you are on the beach. But very nearby !

But Gozo is a totally different caliber ! Illegal hunting/ trapping is obvious all over Gozo , the whole year around. Not just now.

And a boycott of Gozo is quite easy ! It is all up to your personal stance on the situation. After all nearly all Gozitans approve of spring hunting ! Many more than in Malta. But we can also boycott Marsascala, Marsaxlokk, Zurrieq and Dingli !

Cheers
Ricky

I would agree that there is a substantial amount of illegal trapping, but on the western side of the island it is rare to hear anyone shooting outside the permitted seasons, unless of course they are using silencers!

Ray

Hi Ray,

of course you won't hear anything ! Especially outside of the hunting/trapping season!

You can't hear trapping nets unless they are triggered! If you have the eye to look arounf while you are walking around the western side of Gozo and take just a few steps off the regular trail you will see ......

Just take a climb over the Great Wall of Gozo at the Ta Cenc hotel and walk along the cliff trail! The wall itself is already illegal as it denies access to the 10 ft next to the cliff which are public. Or walk up to the Sannap cliffs from Sannat and turn left towards the hotel .... bur wear a bullet proof vest and take a few hikers with you. Hunters are cowards ......

Cheers
Ricky

So the hunter who shot the cuckoo has been arrested and taken to court so let's see the outcome

am more interested in what the OPM will do in reply

ricky wrote:

Hi Ray,

of course you won't hear anything ! Especially outside of the hunting/trapping season!

You can't hear trapping nets unless they are triggered! If you have the eye to look arounf while you are walking around the western side of Gozo and take just a few steps off the regular trail you will see ......

Just take a climb over the Great Wall of Gozo at the Ta Cenc hotel and walk along the cliff trail! The wall itself is already illegal as it denies access to the 10 ft next to the cliff which are public. Or walk up to the Sannap cliffs from Sannat and turn left towards the hotel .... bur wear a bullet proof vest and take a few hikers with you. Hunters are cowards ......

Cheers
Ricky

Your earlier post said
  'But Gozo is a totally different caliber ! Illegal hunting/ trapping is obvious all over Gozo , the whole year around'. 

I agreed that there is illegal trapping taking place all year but that it is rare to hear shooting out of season in the west of the island ( and we are in our third year in this area). Had your post not stated 'hunting/trapping' I would not have mentioned 'silencers', I am not as daft as you implied!

(We have walked most of the tracks in this area by the way!}

Ray

Hi Ray,

we do agree then -))) And hunters are not stupid either ! THey monitor their surroundings and stay in contact through their mobile phones and already know if enforcement officers board the ferry.

I'm sorry that my post was not 100 % exact! I'll try to do better next time. I do like to be very exact -)))

Take care while hiking.

Cheers
Ricky

Hi Ricky

It will soon be too warm for me to go walking, unless there is a bar at the end of the walk!

Cheers

Ray

off topic but so is everyone else...I hope TOON is ok and not affected by the Cyprus earthquake