Pensionado Visa - worth it?

I have a different visa, so can't say personally....

However, $3,200.00 is too high for husband and wife for pensionado visas.  The latest I heard (within the past month) is less than 2000.00 for husband and wife.  Considerably less than 2000.00.  I would check around and get recommendations.  I'm sure if you did a search on lawyer/attorney recommend, on this site, you will come up with plenty.

That is nuts!  Go here and see what it really is.
http://www.lawyers-abogados.net/en/Reso … r-fees.htm

You are paying a huge amount for the attorney.
And, you are being taken. Here is more info for you.

"Pensionado means “one with a pension.”  In order to qualify as a pensionado as a single individual or a married couple at any age over 18, you must receive a minimum of US $1,000 per month (the amount was $500 a few years ago) from your government, for example, as a Social Security check or from some other source.  You prove this by an IRS report, Social Security statement and / or other bank document.

Once you qualify as a pensionado in Panama you are entitled to permanent residency is Panama, meaning a permanent visa, with no need to leave the country and / or returning.  You can come and go as you please and passi through customs as a resident of Panama..

A local Panamanian lawyer can expedite the process of immigration in Panama City in a few months at a cost of approximately $1,000.  You also need to provide a police clearance from your own country and show up to sign and claim your pensionado card with a photo taken at the immigration office.  Your lawyer notifies you of the date it will be ready to complete.

Now a working visa can be included, which certainly allows for opportunities in Panama. Applying for a business is a separate process that involves opening up a business account in Panama.
Show Less - See more at: http://bestplacesintheworldtoretire.com … dpuf"
Ruth

Thank you for your reply. My husband and I both will be receiving our income from the US Social Security system. We contacted a immigration attorney in Panama City who was recommended to us by two different people when we last visited Panama, Since we had nothing to compare her fees to, we took it as a average cost of start to finish service. If anyone else has a recommendation to a good attorney in Panama, we'd gratefully inquire into their fees for service :-)

BoqueteAndrea wrote:

I have a different visa, so can't say personally....

However, $3,200.00 is too high for husband and wife for pensionado visas.  The latest I heard (within the past month) is less than 2000.00 for husband and wife.  Considerably less than 2000.00.  I would check around and get recommendations.  I'm sure if you did a search on lawyer/attorney recommend, on this site, you will come up with plenty.

I need job to any country

The Pensionado Visa is worth the money, but not $3,200.  My husband and I just picked up our permanent Pensionado Visa cards last week.  We paid the attorney $2,400 initially, plus $100 each for the permanent cards,  when the applications were approved. The E-cedula (national ID card) and the multi-entry/exit stamp were included in the fee.  Some lawyers charge $300 or more extra for the E-cedula. 

A lawyer from a popular international magazine is known for that $3,200 quote.  Contact several law firms for quotes of their fees.  They will also send you the latest requirements for any type of visa, free of charge.  As of now, a couple will need a minimum of $1250 per month in pension and/or SS benefits for the Pensionado Visa.  Also, be careful if the quote is too low.  The low cost may not include everything and you will get charged additional fees along the way.  Compare several fee estimates and what will be included in the fee.

You asked if the cost of the Pensionado Visa was worth it.  Yes!  It is not just the discounts that are worth it, but all of the conveniences as well.  For us, making the commitment to our new home is a good feeling.  At the airport, you no longer have to wait in the long lines for visitors; you enter through the residents line and show the Visa as ID, no passport, at least with Copa.   IDs are asked for all the time when using credit cards, so the Visa ID is better than dragging around a passport.  Banking and other business will be easier.

As for the discounts, they are great!  If you plan to visit back home, the savings on flights is one of the biggest cost benefits.  My husband just bought a ticket on Copa and saved $175.  The discount on Copa is 25%.  Hotels within Panama offer discounts too.  If you take any meds, the discount for RX meds is 20% at the pharmacy.  Doctors, dentists, utilities, etc. offer discounts.  I paid $6 to enter the Biomuseo instead of the $12 entrance fee for adults.  Movies offer discounts and of course, restaurants offer a discount.  We rarely ask for discounts for food but sometimes they will give the discount anyway, if they think you look 55 or older. 

We moved to Panama City in August.  We met with the lawyer in September for her to review our apostilled papers.  She reviewed the papers, presented an exact quote, and requested a down payment of $500 in cash.  After paying the down payment and delivering our passports, the lawyer processed the applications and 10 days later, she scheduled a time to meet at immigration.   We were at immigration for 2-3 hours, signing papers and getting multiple photos taken.  One photo for their records and one photo for the temporary card.  We left with our temporary cards after only 10 days of processing.

Three months later, in December, we were notified that our Pensionado Visas were approved.  It is my understanding that immigration is required to complete the approval process in 3 months.  Once notified of the approval, you do not have to rush in to pick up the permanent visa. You can schedule the pick up of the visas at your convenience. At this time the lawyer will request your passports, the temp cards, and $100 for each person.  As soon as the lawyer, or assistant, notifies you, you will need go to immigration for a new photo and pick up your permanent cards.  The E-cedula will still take 2 more months to process.

I highly recommend bringing all of the apostilled paperwork with you and meeting with a lawyer before the dates on the documents expire. The temporary Pensionado Visa card gives you all the same benefits as the permanent Pensionado Visa card.   If you are getting a visa, get it over with, and start enjoying the benefits right away!

Your reply to my post was extremely helpful! Thank you so much!
If I may ask, who did you use as an attorney? Also, did you have any of your household items shipped? We are considering some of our things but not too much - our bed, dresser, tv and some boxes of lines and cookware.

Hola and greeting from beautiful Boquete, Panama.  To answer your question, yes, yes, and yes, the Pensionado Visa is well worth the investment.  You will get it all back and much more in both tangible and intangible benefits.  My wife and I have made Panama our home.  I am from the U.S., and she is from Jamaica.  We both love it here and would not dream of living anywhere else now.  However, I must agree with the other respondents, the attorney that quoted you that amount is taking you for a ride.  To obtain a Pensionado Visa should not cost that much.  Before my wife and I decided to move here, I conducted two years of research.  During the period of my research, I surveyed thirty-five attorneys across Panama to determine the average and mean cost to obtain the Pensionado Visa and was quite shocked at the results.  I asked each attorney to provide me with a detailed and complete breakdown of all charges, including and in addition to their fee, and the cost of executing the visa from delivery of my documents to the issue of the permanent visa.  The range varied from ridiculously and extremely high, to very high, to reasonable based on comparison to what other expats had paid.  I found that in all cases of my survey, that each attorney, after their fee, had increased the amount that must be paid to each government or magistrate agency to process the visa. Some had increased the processing costs by as much as five times the amount that the government or magistrate agency charged to process the visa.  However, there was one exception.  Out of all thirty-five attorneys, I found one attorney who did not increase the charges of the processing agencies.  She only charged, in addition to her very reasonable attorney fee, the exact amounts that were assessed by the processing agencies.  She is the attorney that my wife and I decided to use to obtain our Pensionado Visa.  I have found her to be a very trustworthy, honest, and knowledgeable attorney with a very good professional ethic.  She speak excellent English and I now use her for all my legal matters here in the Republic of Panama.  I am very satisfied with her services in both cost and execution.

Shipping companies will come to your home for a free estimate.  We got an estimate a few months before moving, and after seeing the quote, we took a lot more stuff to the flea market.  The estimate was $3,800, door-to-door, FL to PC, for just one crate with minimal furniture.  We sold what we could and donated a lot to a Veterans group.  We left the rest in a storage unit.  My husband is flying back this week to take the items to the shipping company and get a new estimate for shipping.  You will save some money if you take the items to the shipping warehouse yourself.  If you can, get rid of all the furniture.  Only ship the most important things.  I see plenty of great looking furniture here.  There are inexpensive items at the Do-It hardware store.  We have already replaced the exact storage cabinets that we sold.  There is beautiful, expensive furniture here too.

It is probably a good idea to get an attorney in the area that you will be moving to.

It is definitely worth it, especially if you are on Medicare.  Medicare does not cover foreign doctors except for very short periods.  The 25% savings on air fares booked in Panama is worth the price.  When you add in all the other savings including discount on utilities, restaurant meals, doctors, perscriptions etc. etc. etc. its a no-brainer.

I used Mayra Lamboglia who charged my wife and I $2,200 for both.  See her on Linked In at: Mayra Lamboglia de Ruzzi.  She speaks English.

Tell her Steve & Char Wasylkowski referred you.

As PacificaMaryAnn said, you get the discounts, convenience, and the emotional satisfaction of making a commitment to the country that is becoming your new home. http://kraemerlaw.com/en/  We used this lawyer and have been very happy with him. I don't want to quote prices in case anything has changed over the last few years, but it was in the neighborhood of half of what your lawyer wants. Friends have used lawyers that came highly recommended and weren't given important bits of information which tripped them up, so a good lawyer will save you a lot of headaches. Talk to others who have been through the process, and educate yourself as much as possible.

Thank you so much for the information! I appreciate taking your time to give me some great insight.

Spending to much to get them.  Well worth having if you use them.  We save nearly $100 on prescription drugs every month, $22 a month off our electric bill and save at most of the restaurants we visit and theaters we go to.

Hello,

My wife and I are currently in the process of getting our Pensionado Visa, and we are paying a LOT less than $ 3200.

I don't believe this Expat.com allows for 'advertisements', so if you would like the name of our attorney, I would be happy to share it with you.

Please just email me at [email protected]

Larrie & Tina Rouillard

@ Larrie & Tina Rouillard > it will be really appreciated if you can recommend your attorney in the business directory here > https://www.expat.com/en/business/centr … ca/panama/

Thanks

Priscilla

Please give me contact information for inexpensive lawyer. I have been coming to Costa Rica and Nicaragua for the past five years. I have decided that Panama seems to have the best incentives for a retiree.

You want a good lawyer at a fair price. http://kraemerlaw.com/en/  Don't go by price alone because a bad lawyer will cost you more in the end, not to mention headaches and frustration. After seeing what some of my friends have gone through I really appreciate ours for being competent, organized, and giving us every bit of info we needed to get our residency done without any problems.

AlabamaABC wrote:

Please give me contact information for inexpensive lawyer. I have been coming to Costa Rica and Nicaragua for the past five years. I have decided that Panama seems to have the best incentives for a retiree.

I am wondering if one can qualify for pensionado status in Panama based on savings / proof of financial stability, rather than an actual pension. We will not be eligible for US Social Security for several years yet, have worked as independent contractors most of our work lives so no company pensions, and I have read in other countries there is something called "a person of means" (which sounds pretty funny!) based on say a local bank account with a sufficient balance. Just wondering if anyone has experience with some kind of work around? Thanks!

@ PacificaMaryAnn . . .
Thanks for the detailed information on you visa process. Could you provide the name of the Attorney that you worked with for your visas - It sounds like your process was very smooth & fairly priced. 
  Thanks in advance.
Robin

bluewaterm wrote:

I am wondering if one can qualify for pensionado status in Panama based on savings / proof of financial stability, rather than an actual pension. We will not be eligible for US Social Security for several years yet, have worked as independent contractors most of our work lives so no company pensions, and I have read in other countries there is something called "a person of means" (which sounds pretty funny!) based on say a local bank account with a sufficient balance. Just wondering if anyone has experience with some kind of work around? Thanks!

Savings and investments, unless annuitized into a pension-type payment won't work, but Panama does have a Persons of Means visa too.  It's been a while since I've looked at it or read about it, but I'm thinking it's around $300,000 - either in cash deposit or in real estate or a combination.

Thanks for that info. I will look more thoroughly on the person of means front, and guess I am off to research annuities, or maybe a closed end trust. Much obliged.

bluewaterm wrote:

Thanks for that info. I will look more thoroughly on the person of means front, and guess I am off to research annuities, or maybe a closed end trust. Much obliged.

Hopefully SunsetSteve or Steven Rich MBA will jump on - they're very knowledgeable on this stuff.

I'm using Kraemer law firm - they're fair pried and legit.

RocknRobin,

I will send the information by private message.  The best lawyers do not want their information posted on an open forum.

That is an impressive research you did. Can you please give me the name and contact info for the attorney that you used? I am sorry I am new to using this site and I don't know how to pm. I will be arriving in Panama in 3 weeks. Thank you, Sandy

Looks like the originators of this post presented the question in Jan. of this year. Forget what is costs for a minute (more on that later) you need some kind of Visa! Unless what is now becoming increasedly difficult, from what I understand, "border hopping" to make sure your Passport indicates that you have been out of the country.. um sometimes it's 3 mos. then 6 mos., and back and forth. Have to stay out of the country 24 hours, sometimes not, then show $500 cash, etc. etc.  - the border is not utopia at all - border towns in general are not where I want to hang out!

Sorry, but I must be blunt - this is not the right question to be asking if indeed you have already started this process of moving here for an extended period of time- this is the first thing to consider! Doesn't mean you have to go through the permanent residendency process, but find out what it take to be able to stay here beyond what I just stated above.

In our case, and there are many other types of visas, we had our Pensionado Visas at least 2 years before we moved here. There was no such thing a Temp. Pensionado Visa then.  I have listened to countless people discuss the process, already living here - what a nightmare!

It's much more difficult now and a lengthly process - so please, I am not going to recommend an attorney or what type of Visa - do your research on what will allow you to stay here (at least 6 mos. out of the year) before you arrive if that is  your intention. There are options - first figure out what is best for you and the only item I will recommend is to hire an attorney in Panama City - not one in Chiriqui! Otherwise, on top of a trip or 2 back to the US, you will have to deal with going to PC to complete the process. My attorneys here (but I am sure there are some that have or work for firms in PC), do not help expedite the process from my understanding. You can't complete the process here - you have to go to PC!

My point? At the end of the day, if you really want to live here - expect to pay a few $$ for a good attorney. We don't regret that for a minute. DISCLAIMER - the attorney we used no longer practices at the firm that we used. So I do not have a specific recommendation but our process was seamless looking back. I also don't remember what we paid  - but $3K? Shouldn't be too much if you hire the right person the first time. Otherwise the hidden costs are going to add up fast.

I cannot speak for others that come here outside of the US, but there is so much you need to do personally in the US before you are even considered for residency. If you don't  do your due diligence on that you will pay MORE and I guarantee it once you are here.

And to answer one of the posts, yes,  it is possible to get a Pensionado Visa via a private company, but just add more time onto what may or may not work. SS or a Gov't Pension are what the Panamain gov't regonizes here immediately.  Or a person of means VISA - $300K to bring here sounds about right. And again, there are others, but I don't have the information.

We are allowed here why?  The gov't provides incentives to encourage ex-pats  to move here for the purpose of trying to improve the economic conditions of this beautiful country that I consider home (but I am still a visitor not a citizen). We So if the small amount of  money that is required by the Panamanian gov't (dunno now maybe $1200/mo.?) is too much for you, then you may want to reconsider why you are making a major lifestyle change. It is, I suppose possible to live on that,  but not that easy and prices are rising fast. I have been here too long and I can tell after talking to someone 5 minutes or so if they will make it here - been at this too long.

Lo siento - hablo muy fuerte pero es la verdad. Por favor, corregir mi español

Saludos

So understanding or trying to learn Spanish is important too- is what I was trying to say above....

Hello:  Could you please tell me the name of the attorney you are referring to?  My wife and I are moving there shortly.

Thank you,

Mayra Lamboglia De Ruzzi. Very professional, reasonable fees. Google her.

Has anyone used someone besides - or in addition to - an attorney to get their Pensionado Visa? 

        I lived in Mexico for a year and a half and used a relocation specialist that was recommended by the American Society in Guadalajara. She found me an inexpensive place to live and also got me my one year Pensionado visa and Mexican health insurance - probably for much less than if I had used an attorney. I don't know much Spanish, so I couldn't have done it myself.

Can't be done. The attorney I used was worth it ten times over.

There are many different type's of Visa's available within Panama ... That Visa or Any other type Visa ( NOT A TRAVEL VISA/TOURIST VISA - 6 months ). Enables you to get a Panamanian Driver Licenses & all Jubilado discounts as well.

Example:  When a woman reaches 55 years old & a man reaches 60 years old they will qualify for a JUBILADO  DISCOUNTS.  All Visa's have the same DISCOUNTS AVAILABLE for senior citizens ... ( Based on age ) ...>>> YOURS IS BASED ON INCOME FROM A PENSION ... >>> THAT'S THE ONLY DIFFERENCE.
You can be any AGE ... >>> BUT ($$$$)  INCOME FOR LIFE HAS TO BE ESTABLISHED FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE TO QUALIFY.   

I used The Friendly Nation Visa ...  Same Discounts, Easier & Faster, but I do not have a Pension ( I own property and a business ). I made an Investment in Panama. ( BUT MY AGE IS A FACTOR FOR DISCOUNTS )

I got my moneys worth that way  ...>>>  your going to get returns based on Spending money on Traveling, Hotels, Airlines, Trains, Buses, Eating out,Utilities and Medical expensive etc.

It might take you a few years to pay for itself, but your a resident now .... ALL GOOD

Lourdes Miranda... excellent attorney.
Goggle her.

Vanessa Arispe

Abogada (lawyer)

[email protected]

6848-6450

Hi everyone,

@ nfoote, could you please also recommend your contact in the Panama business directory > add business. This will benefit any member looking for a lawyer and who might not have read or seen this thread.

Thank you in advance
Bhavna

That's very interesting .... I WOULD NOT USE THIS ATTORNEY ..... NOT GOOD >>> THIS IS THE WILD WEST >>> BE VERY CAREFUL >>>

They have something to HIDE !!!

franklin11 wrote:

That's very interesting .... I WOULD NOT USE THIS ATTORNEY ..... NOT GOOD >>> THIS IS THE WILD WEST >>> BE VERY CAREFUL >>>

They have something to HIDE !!!

Franklin - in all fairness you need to specify WHICH attorney you are warning about.  There ARE lawyers out there earning an honest living and dong the best for their clients . . . and others who only care about themselves. We must take care not to tar all with the same brush.

Agree with Sunset Steve!

I agree with the American Embassy, Canadian Embassy and the Police ( Course of living Safely in Panama )

look up- " things to do and not to do"  Latin American Courts System/police/and Attorney's.

Beware of people that want to send messages privately ( ADVICE ? )... Anyone/ Lawyers who Do Not want their names used as a good reference ( WHY ?) on a web site designed/developed to help with making sound / better decisions for "VISA's " is a RED FLAG !!!

75% hiding something -Fact !

Live it or Lose it ... Common sense -Fact

ASK ANYONE WHO REALLY LIVES HERE ... Can tell you how many people get Scammed/ripped off  by lawyers & con artist ( They don't call it the Wild West for nothing )  once they take your money & THEN DO NOTHING>>> What's your recourse >>> ASK >>> NOTHING ( could take years & then they'll Sue you !! )

WHAT EVER ....