Living in Germany but working remotely for a UK company

I guess this should be possible and you'd be classified as a freelancer in Germany - which means you will have to pay full contributions to health insurance (for employees the employer pays half) and won't have unemployment cover and retirement plan, so need to put aside some money for that.
Ask a good tax adviser (Steuerberater) for details on how to do this.

thank you, I'll look into that. Ideally I would like to keep being employed as there are some benefits that come with it. I thought/hoped within the EU there would be some sort of agreement between the countries that would allow us to have things like pensions, NI, converted into the other countries' equivalent. I've seen that there's a double taxation agreement in place between the UK and Germany and had hoped that something similar would exist for everything else as well.

Hello Markus,
There is something known as the 183-day ruling  meaning that if you live and work in any country for 183 days or more in a year, you are considered a tax resident. In this case, you will not only be required to pay taxes in that country but other employment stipulations would probably apply (with a few excceptions). I am of the opinion that this can relatively be unproblematic if your UK company was prepared to set up operations in the country but you have indicated that this is a worst case situation for you. Apart from being self-employed (i.e. getting paid by invoices instead of by salary),there seems not to be quite a number of sensible alternatives left.
However, the above is based on my knowledge whilst working for a MNC some years back. The current situation may have been amended slightly but as mentioned by Beppi, I also think that you should seek sound advice from an income expert who can advise on the current tax situation.

thanks very much for the info. The problem is that I would be working remotely and the company would have to set up a German payroll just for me which I assume would be a pretty expensive and complicated thing to do. They basically do me a favour in allowing me to work from there and I can't expect them to have increased cost due to this.

If anyone knows about setting up a German payroll system I would be more than happy to hear from them. I simply assume it's not the most straight forward thing to do.

Antly: The mentioned 183-days rule does not exist as a general rule!
It is part of many (but by far not all) bilateral tax agreements, and even there is often limited in scope to some niche cases.
For Germany, you generally pay tax on your world income as soon as you take up a residence in the country (this can lead to situations where you are taxed twice, in Germany and in another country, on the same income!).
I think there is a UK-German tax treaty that might amend this in certain cases, but I do not know this document (Google is happy to help you find it!).

Good question(s). If you reside in Germany then you will have to pay tax on your world-wide income and be insured in Germany as Beppi mentioned. The details of how this should work sound complex. Without having a German employer to pay their half of your German social taxes, which include health, retirement and disability care, you will (probably) be seen as an independent contractor. 

Sounds like you will need not only tax advice but will have to figure out which office will be the one you need to deal with about the social taxes – but it won't be the Finanzamt. As a self-employed artist, I am in the Künstlersozialkasse which then goes through the Deutsche-Rentenversicherung-Bund. Depending on where one lives, one might go through either the national or state sections of the Deutsche-Versicherungs-Bund. I think inquiring at any such office should lead to finding the one responsible.

Look at www.drv-bund.de

You will have to ask your company how any company pension benefits work in addition to state run ones. In America, I formerly paid into the Social Security system which is mostly just for retirement benefits. Through a treaty between the USA and Germany I am credited in Germany for the years and monies paid into the American system. I know nothing about the British equivalence of the Social Security system but would assume they would have a similar agreement.

A note about the Künstlersozialkasse, it helps artists, performers and other select professions like journalists by matching their payments like an employer would. Other self-employed people who aren't eligible are generally going to have to pay the full social taxes of over 30%. And unlike income tax which only applies to combined income for a couple of over app. 16000 Euros, it is taken on the first euro earned.

Also, tax advisers in Germany are not cheap. It helps to first research online and to ask at the Finazamt about requirements, which will give you a better framework about what to ask the tax advisers. The Finazamt will not give advice on strategies to optimally save on taxes but are obligated to tell you what you have to do.

If you want to continue working full time in the UK but living in Germany then there are companies that are based in Germany that can administrate a German payslip for the UK company to pay into.

Things to know….
They charge the UK company a fixed fee for this service.
It is paid in euros so there will be bank transaction charges (pounds to euros) for the UK company to pay into the German system.
The social insurances are approx. double for what you pay in the UK (remember you're paying for health insurance as well in Germany).
The UK company will have to pay on time or they get fined.
There is also the decision whether to get paid in the UK or Germany. Both are fine but it makes it easier on the Germany tax side to paid in euros.

It'll be more expensive for your UK company so let them know the costs.

Hi, was looking on topic like this, may I know what you did to be able to continue working remotely and pay dues in german govt?

fabmishy wrote:

Hi, was looking on topic like this, may I know what you did to be able to continue working remotely and pay dues in german govt?

This post is 3 years old, you are very unlikely to receive a response. You would be better off in starting a new thread off.

@Fabmishy, I have been doing a similar thing for the past 2 years.  ( though it has taken me that long to work out the procedure)
I hold an EU passport, work for a UK company and live in Germany.

If you are only being paid by one company, it is not possible to be classed as a "contractor or freelancer" therefore it's not possible to go through all the self-employed process ( which would have been easier).

My UK company doesn't have a Germany branch. So I had to request an A1 form from the HRMC and sent it to the DVKA ( from the moment the DVKA gets your request you are "covered" and need to pay German social, health and retirement payments. ( they take at least 6 months to respond and 12 months to tell you this).

My company didn't want to process the additions on health contributions that German required.
You and your company pay NI contributions, have your company agree to article 21 and pay BOTH contributions to you.
I become responsible to pay these contributions under article 21 to the DVKA  ( though the total will still be about 600€ more than the Uk's total monthly contribution. Luckily my insurance "Die Techniker" helped a lot with this process, providing forms and communications of what I needed)

My tax took a little longer to sort out, but a family friend now helps me sort that out so i am not 100% sure on the process,  I give him all my pay slips and I just get a yearly bill to pay.

Remember Germany will charge you for tax and social from the moment you put in your application. If takes 2 years to sort out ( and it can) you have to back pay that 2 years.
It also takes ages to request a back pay from the HMRC ( though it can be done)

I would suggest speaking with the HMRC and DVKA and a tax accountant asap.
Also stopping your tax and NI payments in the UK, the moment you apply in Germany, so you don't have to go through the hassle of trying to claim it all back.
I would also chase the DVKA, regardless of their " we will contact you" attitude.

I love Germany, but noone has any idea what anyone else does.
So keep asking and searching until you find someone who knows what they are talking about.

All this information may be useless after Brexit, but i hope it helps someone

thanks for the reply! may i know what's HRMC and DVKA? i will be living in hamburg thru fiance visa

Hi Fabmishy,

HRMC = Her majesty's Revenue and customers  ( UK Government responsible for the collection of taxes, the payment of some forms of state support and the administration of other regulatory regimes including National Health Service and national minimum wage.)
DVKA = Deutsche Verbindungsstelle Krankenversicherung Ausland ( DVKA is the central interface for international partners and social security organizations.)

are you working for a UK company, but living in Germany?
If so, these are the 2 I believe are needed to be contacted ( they are countrywide not city dependant)
I do not believe your visa is reflective. I have been told that Rathaus, tax and insurance institutes don't really talk to each other. ( though I am not surprised) So it normally means you have to process everything 20 times.

Beckahstar, not in UK my employer is in Asia but I work with international org and maybe I can be transferred to an EU based affiliate center but nothing is guaranteed yet, I believe I can still work up to 6 mos upon my arrival without having to worry with all the requirements yet. Will try to read on DVKA. Thank you for sharing that information

fabmishy wrote:

Beckahstar, not in UK my employer is in Asia but I work with international org and maybe I can be transferred to an EU based affiliate center but nothing is guaranteed yet, I believe I can still work up to 6 mos upon my arrival without having to worry with all the requirements yet. Will try to read on DVKA. Thank you for sharing that information

I think there is some confusion on this tread. There are responces valid for a UK citizen in Germany as concerned the original poster. But Beckahstar, rather than starting a new thread, asked something here. The profile shows a Filipino national who say they are working for a Asian company. And the statement that they can arrive and work 6 months without any obligations is pure fantasy. Even if for a international organization, getting a work visa and the requirements to be complied with are not the same for someone in the UK and the Philippines! I would suggest Beckahstar start a new thread and clarify exactly what this job entails and for whom to get any valid advice.

TominStuttgart wrote:

fabmishy wrote:

Beckahstar, not in UK my employer is in Asia but I work with international org and maybe I can be transferred to an EU based affiliate center but nothing is guaranteed yet, I believe I can still work up to 6 mos upon my arrival without having to worry with all the requirements yet. Will try to read on DVKA. Thank you for sharing that information

I think there is some confusion on this tread. There are responces valid for a UK citizen in Germany as concerned the original poster. But Beckahstar, rather than starting a new thread, asked something here. The profile shows a Filipino national who say they are working for a Asian company. And the statement that they can arrive and work 6 months without any obligations is pure fantasy. Even if for a international organization, getting a work visa and the requirements to be complied with are not the same for someone in the UK and the Philippines! I would suggest Beckahstar start a new thread and clarify exactly what this job entails and for whom to get any valid advice.

To correct my above post, the OP was actually German with a UK partner...

hello, Beckahstar asked me so I replied. no need to start new thread i understand its not same for all employer/countries but basically i got idea how he processed it in germany. I have reference wherein you can work 6 mos without having duty to pay taxes yet in germany thats why i mentioned it... its not fantasy i did my own researching also, fyi

fabmishy wrote:

I have reference wherein you can work 6 mos without having duty to pay taxes yet in germany thats why i mentioned it... its not fantasy i did my own researching also, fyi

I know a bit about German tax rules and I am very sure this is untrue (except maybe for some niches like diplomats and foreign military personnel): In Germany you are tax-liable (with your world income) from the moment you reside here!
Maybe you can give us the reference you mention?

All German residents are liable for income tax on their worldwide income and assets. Non-residents are subject to German income tax in respect of German-source income. Unlike some other countries, Germany does not have a special tax regime for incoming expats, and you may also be liable for taxes in your home country.

Yes, there is a special rule that a non-German can work in Germany for 183 day without paying taxes. But there are LOTS of rules that apply to this special situation. Any work has to be limited to this time period, not open. One cannot be registered or have an apartment except with a contract limited to this 6 month period - or other things that apply to an ongoing life in Germany. If you have a wife or husband living for more than this limited time then it doesn't work. You cannot be a member of things like the ADAC (German Auto Club) or have subscriptions to magazines or newspapers etc. You cannot have a vehicle registered in your name. What fabmishy suggests is that one can come to Germany for an unlimited time and just not have to pay tax for the first 6 months - which is incorrect. Any evidence of not having limited the stay to that 6 months means you get no exemption, not that the first 6 months are free. And that one can simply leave Germany and come again a short time later and do another 6 months tax free also doesn't work. The tax authorities are not so stupid as to allow such nonsense.

Here is a link that describes the rules

https://goodbyematrix.com/die-183-tage- … rfreiheit/

In general, where you pay tax is decided by where you live for the majority of the tax reference period; the only 6-month reference I can think of is the residence rule where you become liable for taxes in any country.  Perhaps the person thinks this means he/she doesn't pay any taxes in that period; it doesn't, it makes no sense to withhold any taxes due as they backdate any assessment to the date you arrived in the country.

Cynic wrote:

In general, where you pay tax is decided by where you live for the majority of the tax reference period; the only 6-month reference I can think of is the residence rule where you become liable for taxes in any country.  Perhaps the person thinks this means he/she doesn't pay any taxes in that period; it doesn't, it makes no sense to withhold any taxes due as they backdate any assessment to the date you arrived in the country.

The internet has lots of articles of people falsely claiming that one can live and no longer pay any income tax. The thing is that they misinterpret or misunderstand the rules. As shown by the link I already provided, there are exceptions for a limited visit. But that only means that the person will almost 100% have to pay the income tax to their country of origin rather than where it was earned as is the norm. The theory is that one could constantly base themselves in new countries under such circumstances. This ignores the incredible constraints and complications of setting up such a situation. One can also theoretically pick the right lottery number and win hundreds of millions – and it is probably just as likely.

fabmishy wrote:

hello, Beckahstar asked me so I replied. no need to start new thread i understand its not same for all employer/countries but basically i got idea how he processed it in germany. I have reference wherein you can work 6 mos without having duty to pay taxes yet in germany thats why i mentioned it... its not fantasy i did my own researching also, fyi

No, you were posing questions to Beckahstar and not the other way around. And I stand by my positon that the situation is so different that a new thread should have been created to avoid confusion.

TominStuttgart wrote:

As shown by the link I already provided, there are exceptions for a limited visit. But that only means that the person will almost 100% have to pay the income tax to their country of origin rather than where it was earned as is the norm.

Correct!
I know such a case where the tax authority demanded proof that the income in question was taxed elsewhere, otherwise they would not accept the "no residence" exception.
In international matters, it is far more likely to be double-taxed in the end, rather than not taxed at all!

beppi wrote:

TominStuttgart wrote:

As shown by the link I already provided, there are exceptions for a limited visit. But that only means that the person will almost 100% have to pay the income tax to their country of origin rather than where it was earned as is the norm.

Correct!
I know such a case where the tax authority demanded proof that the income in question was taxed elsewhere, otherwise they would not accept the "no residence" exception.
In international matters, it is far more likely to be double-taxed in the end, rather than not taxed at all!

I can go further than that; my own experience is that in all cases where exemptions are being claimed because the tax was assessed in another jurisdiction where a double-taxation agreement was in place, that original evidence of this be supplied and that until that was provided, the monies involved had to be paid.

Hey,

I saw your post and I am in the exact same situation. I am working in Germany for a UK organisation. My organisation don't want to support the extra-cost of German Health insurance. So I would like to know a little more how did you deal with " die techniker" ? what forms did you filled in ?
Thank you

Hello,

I would appreciate if someone can help and clarify few points for me and

guide me in my project (Moving from Germany to UK for a new Job_work):

1. have been living and working in germany (stuttgart) for over 14years.

2. We have a family insurance (TK) in germany. (wife & 2 kids)

3. Potentially, I may start new job in UK

3. Own a house in germany

4. Hold an Irish Citizenship

pls help how should I proceed legally step by step in the right way (tax, insurance, etc..)

Note: the kids may have to do this year school (2022/2023) .

Many Thanks and sincerely appreciate your support.

- @Zoubirkhalfi200