We really screwed up and don't know what to do...

Wow, talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Tough situation for sure.

Well, it's not as drastic as you might envision so keep your hopes up. First of all France is a country that partially follows the concept of jus soli, while in most cases a child that is born there is a French citizen by birth the country does follow jus sanguinis. Since the baby's father is French your child will certainly be a French citizen.

As the mother of a French citizen it is almost certain that you would also be permitted to apply for citizenship too, even if you chose not to marry for now. Certainly, marriage would be the easier route, but that's up to the two of you to decide and I sure would never recommend marriage for the sole reason of resolving an immigration issue.

I'm sure you're aware of your boyfriend's position back in the USA should you both eventually decide to settle there. Being married to a US citizen, in itself, does not guarantee a "green card" as you know. On the other hand when you add a child (that's also a US citizen) to the makeup of that family, I'm sure that he would have absolutely no problem in obtaining PR status in the USA.

So, you're pregnant... now you know that this could actually be a blessing in disguise and not the disaster you've been imagining it to be. Congrats, take good care of yourself and your baby and let your immigration situation take care of itself. What you need to focus on for the next while is HEALTH.

It's worth your while to talk to a local lawyer who specializes in immigrations matters, I'm sure you'll find there is a way to resolve your situation that is nowhere near as painful as you think.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Can you go to England and stay for a few days and come back to France for another 3 mos.?

I think their is a special type of stay visa if your pregnant but I know for sure that all you need to do is cross a boarder(probably England would be the best) and get another stamp on your passport. The stamp is what gives you a visitor visa. My wife did that when we were in Canada and it was fine. Make sure you do before the originally expiry because I'm pretty sure there is heavy fines if you are still in the country and it expires.

wjwoodward wrote:

Wow, talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Tough situation for sure.

Well, it's not as drastic as you might envision so keep your hopes up. First of all France is a country that partially follows the concept of jus soli, while in most cases a child that is born there is a French citizen by birth the country does follow jus sanguinis. Since the baby's father is French your child will certainly be a French citizen.

As the mother of a French citizen it is almost certain that you would also be permitted to apply for citizenship too, even if you chose not to marry for now. Certainly, marriage would be the easier route, but that's up to the two of you to decide and I sure would never recommend marriage for the sole reason of resolving an immigration issue.

I'm sure you're aware of your boyfriend's position back in the USA should you both eventually decide to settle there. Being married to a US citizen, in itself, does not guarantee a "green card" as you know. On the other hand when you add a child (that's also a US citizen) to the makeup of that family, I'm sure that he would have absolutely no problem in obtaining PR status in the USA.

So, you're pregnant... now you know that this could actually be a blessing in disguise and not the disaster you've been imagining it to be. Congrats, take good care of yourself and your baby and let your immigration situation take care of itself. What you need to focus on for the next while is HEALTH.

It's worth your while to talk to a local lawyer who specializes in immigrations matters, I'm sure you'll find there is a way to resolve your situation that is nowhere near as painful as you think.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Hello William,

I am just curious where you are getting the assumption that France still follows jus soil? Because from my research since Sarkozy...well, they don't really do that anymore. I have read nowhere that I can apply for citizenship beause I am pregnant with a French mans child.
I hope everyone understands that there are mothers separated from their children (who are illegal) in France everyday. I thought I would have no right to anything. I thought I had to leave to the US to apply for a visa?

I can't exactly do anything right now as it is the weekend...so.


Matt, that does NOT work anymore. It states that one can only stay in the EU for 90 days out of 180 days. Sp, 90 days in and 90 days out...

I stated that France "partially" follows the legal concept of jus soli, which they do. Regardless of this fact your child, if registered in the name of the biological father who is a French national, has the absolute right to French citizenship under jus sanguinis.

I did not say you could apply for citizenship because you are carrying a French man's child, please re-read my posting. I said that "as the mother of a French citizen (meaning your child once born)" you would clearly have the legal right to apply for citizenship. I stress "apply" since citizenship is at the sole discretion of any nation, anyone who by virtue of law is not a citizen and thus must apply for naturalization, has no inate right to receive it, but they may clearly have a right to apply in most circumstances.

Wow, I understand your nervousness about your situation, but I don't know where all this hostility is coming from or why you're directing it at me. My God, I was trying to help you and to show you that your situation is far from hopeless. Please forgive me for trying..... I've learned a valuable lesson I'll certainly be less helpful to people from now on.

Regards,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

I agree. I'm sorry but I didn't waste my time reading your post and responding to it just to have negative responses from you. I understand your frustration but I wouldn't come on here responding to people's replies with such disgracefulness. People are just trying to help and you should respect their opinion whether it's right or not.

Good luck!

wjwoodward wrote:

I stated that France "partially" follows the legal concept of jus soli, which they do. Regardless of this fact your child, if registered in the name of the biological father who is a French national, has the absolute right to French citizenship under jus sanguinis.

I did not say you could apply for citizenship because you are carrying a French man's child, please re-read my posting. I said that "as the mother of a French citizen (meaning your child once born)" you would clearly have the legal right to apply for citizenship. I stress "apply" since citizenship is at the sole discretion of any nation, anyone who by virtue of law is not a citizen and thus must apply for naturalization, has no inate right to receive it, but they may clearly have a right to apply in most circumstances.

Wow, I understand your nervousness about your situation, but I don't know where all this hostility is coming from or why you're directing it at me. My God, I was trying to help you and to show you that your situation is far from hopeless. Please forgive me for trying..... I've learned a valuable lesson I'll certainly be less helpful to people from now on.

Regards,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

There was nothing in my post to indicate I was being hostile, I was only asking where you are getting these facts about France and the situation I am in.

Matt-Toronto wrote:

I agree. I'm sorry but I didn't waste my time reading your post and responding to it just to have negative responses from you. I understand your frustration but I wouldn't come on here responding to people's replies with such disgracefulness. People are just trying to help and you should respect their opinion whether it's right or not.

Good luck!

Okay, I was NOT being hostile. Just because I used the word NOT when responding to you does not make it hostile at all. Now I am being attacked for seeking information? I know about the 90 day rule and I was just telling you that it doesn't work like that.
I never said I didn't respect anyone's information or opinion. I was only correcting what you assumed I could do. If we are talking about respect, then please respect me when I correct the information you are giving me. I wasn't trying to be rude about it at all...

No further comments by me except the following observations.... once bitten twice shy, like the old saying goes.

You register with Expat-blog TODAY, and know absolutely NOTHING about our structure, probably haven't even bothered to read the local forum CODE OF CONDUCT. You don't understand that the "title" under my avatar/photo and my signature line means that I'm not just a regular member, but rather part of Expat-blog's administration. You get the very best and most accurate advice I can possibly give you, based on experience and on International Law. And you come back like this.....

You're NOT going to win friends and influence people here with an attitude like that, trust me. I highly doubt that you're going to get replies from anyone else now. You're on you own!!!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

wjwoodward wrote:

No further comments by me except the following observations.... once bitten twice shy, like the old saying goes.

You register with Expat-blog TODAY, and know absolutely NOTHING about our structure, probably haven't even bothered to read the local forum CODE OF CONDUCT. You don't understand that the "title" under my avatar/photo and my signature line means that I'm not just a regular member, but rather part of Expat-blog's administration. You get the very best and most accurate advice I can possibly give you, based on experience and on International Law. And you come back like this.....

You're NOT going to win friends and influence people here with an attitude like that, trust me. I highly doubt that you're going to get replies from anyone else now. You're on you own!!!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

You are obviously misinterpreting everything I have written. Since this is the internet, it is kind of hard to realize fear and anxiety may sound like rudeness in a written manner.
I understand what it says under your picture, All I asked was where is this information that you are telling me about? Do you have links, anything that links back to what you are telling me because I have read differently because of the way France is at the moment with immigration. I ask for proof of this idea of immigration to France, because of a child, so I have proof to show to whomever I need to while here because everyone knows how France's Laws are very bureaucratic and vary depending on who you are dealing with..

So I am sorry again if I have come off rude, I am not trying to.

Excerpt from French Law - French Law Resource:

see entire page -  http://www.frenchlaw.com/Immigration_Visas.htm


Family immigration

Spouses of French citizens have a right to a long stay visa and a family stay card as of right, absent fraud, and for spouses from visa waiver countries, no long stay visa is required. The spouse can acquire a right to permanent residence, provided the marriage was celebrated at least two years prior to the permanent residency request. Furthermore, children (less than 21 years of age) of a French parent also have a right to permanent
residence. Also, the parent of a French citizen may request permanent residence, provided that the parent is a dependent of the French citizen.

The two operative parts being marked in RED TEXT.

Observation: Given that an elderly parent of a French citizen who is dependent may request permanent residency, it thus goes without saying that the parent of a French citizen who is a minor child and dependent upon that parent also will have an equal right under law to request permanent residency. You cannot grant that right to one, yet exclude the other.

Thank you so much for this information William.Again I am very sorry to come off rude, I really am. I have to ask your opinion though, does this mean that I could stay and request it...or am I putting myself in a bad position by overstaying? I'm just curious if they will take into consideration that I don't work and will therefore wonder how/why my child is dependent on me if I can't provide for them? Even though I could if I can work. My boyfriend only makes minimum wage here though...so, I am sooooooo nervous about all of this...but he has a bit of money saved up...around 20,000 euros... vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F16162.xhtml I found this also (after searching forever) If you don't speak french I think you can have it translated. "[color=#E3431C]If you have been in France stripped of the VLS-TS, you can still benefit from a special procedure. You can apply for a visa at the Prefecture, without having to return to your country. You must meet the following three conditions: be entered regularly in France (in the short-stay visa unless you are given a nationality or residence permit issued by another European country) having celebrated your wedding in France living in France for more than six months with your French spouse (regardless of the date of your wedding). If you meet these three requirements, the prefecture gives you a visa application form and transmit it for consideration to the consulate of France in your country. You receive, pending the hearing of your application, a temporary residence permit. If you do not meet these three requirements, the prefecture will notify a refusal to stay and invite you to return to your country to apply for a long-stay visa from the French consulate.[/color]" So, I am curious about this...that is, if we were to get married, I can thus try to stay and get my visa from within?

While I am not intimately familiar with French law or the French Constitution, almost every nation on earth makes some provision in their Constitution for protection or preservation of the family unit. If the French Constitution contains any such provision I fail to see how they could expel or even request the parent of a minor child (who is also a French citizen) that is dependent upon that parent to leave the country without it being a clear violation of the Constitution.

Your child will automatically be a French citizen upon birth by virtue of having a father who is a French citizen, and by virtue of being born in France.

The fact that YOU may or may not be in a position to fully support your child is rather irrelevant, since in the eyes of the law the child will be equally dependent upon you and the father, regardless of your marital status and the employment of either of you. The autorities therefore cannot simply state that if you're not fully employed the child therefore could not be dependent upon you, that would be absurd. Essentially the ONLY way I can envision that you would not have a right to request permanency as the mother, would be if for some reason the child were to be removed from your custody by the Court, and I hardly believe that would be even a remote possibility for solely financial reasons.

Regarding whether or not you would able to apply for permanent resident status while in an overstay situation (i.e. visa stay expired) that would depend solely on the immigration regulations of France and each country has different regulations. Here in Brazil, for example, the parent of a child born in Brazilian national territory CANNOT be expelled from the country under any circumstances and regardless of their visa status the Federal Police are obligated to accept permanency applications even for those in an overstay situation, in view of the Constitutional principal of Protection of the Family Unit. Only a spouse of a Brazilian or the parent of a Brazilian (minor) has this ability, everyone else may only apply for permanency while their migratory situation is "regular" (i.e. visa stay valid). It may well be that you would have similar protection under French laws too.

I'm not going to minimize your situation, it is NOT without its complications. You will most certainly need to speak to a local lawyer that specializes in immigration matter at least for information and orientation. You may well need only that and be able to do the rest of the application process yourself. However, if the lawyer believes it is in your best interest to have your case handled by a legal professional, heed that advice.

Regarding marrying the child's father, the legislation that you have cited is quite clear, that provided that you entered France legally, have cohabited for 6 months in France it makes absolutely no difference when the marriage has taken place; they must accept your application and forward it to the French Consulate in your country of origin for consideration. They must also provide you with a temporary residence permit. If you fail to meet those requirements then they MUST inform you so.

In fact, that portion of the text would tend to indicate that you clearly do have a right to remain in the country and have your application accepted regardless of your visa status.

Check with a lawyer. If you cannot afford one check with the French Law Society to see if they have a lawyer referral service that might provide a free 30 minute consultation (some countries offer that service) or if there is a Public Defender's Office that you may turn to for counsel.

looks to me like Mr. Woodward was just trying to help!

about the post from the pregnant lady writing..."Something is rotten in the state of Denmark" shakespeare
means something wrong with your story! will not wast my time on your suspicious posts!

Hello Madame Confusion (dont pissed at me please because i'm just trying to make you smile) 

I am a wife of a French man, I am Indonesian (which means i have less chance to get a schengen visa than an American)
My husband read your post and he suggests you to go back to US (or anywhere as long as you got your exit stamp) before your visa expired as the immigration won't consider your 'young pregnancy' (because you can still travel) only to give you an extension. and then apply for another 3 months visa. If you don't want to get married then you can do this until you see that you are going to give birth in France. In the mean time maybe you can ask your BF to get information on how to do PACS, this is a legal communion too, but i don't know further information about it. If you think it's impossible or very hard to do, maybe you will have to get married then go back to US to apply for a long term spouse visa (that's what i did). But for sure the immigration will not give you the extension if you are still able to travel.
And don't be stressed, just follow all the procedures, it's not as bad as you think. Cheer up 

V

addition for your last post about the VLS-TS (this is my own experience) ; if you will get married in 'La Mairie' where you and your BF reside, you will then have to exit France and apply for a longterm spouse visa from your country directly (you don't have to wait 90 days), then you re-enter France, then you have to report your arrival in the 'OFII' office in the region where you and your BF reside, you will get an invitation to attend a training (half day duration) to obtain this VLS-TS sticker on your passport (you will get some certificates as well), this sticker is your first 'titre de sejour' which i understand is the residence permit, this sticker then will allow you to stay permanently in France and then 3 months before your longterm spouse visa expired you will have to apply online on the Prefecture (where you both reside) Website to extend this 'titre de sejour', you will choose 1 date & time and you will have to bring all the certificates you got on the first training day on this chosen day. By this You will get another year of residence permit WITHOUT exiting France and you can do this every year. Then after few years you will be able to obtain a 10 years residence card.


Cheers 
V

VctoriaDuplenne wrote:

addition for your last post about the VLS-TS (this is my own experience) ; if you will get married in 'La Mairie' where you and your BF reside, you will then have to exit France and apply for a longterm spouse visa from your country directly (you don't have to wait 90 days), then you re-enter France, then you have to report your arrival in the 'OFII' office in the region where you and your BF reside, you will get an invitation to attend a training (half day duration) to obtain this VLS-TS sticker on your passport (you will get some certificates as well), this sticker is your first 'titre de sejour' which i understand is the residence permit, this sticker then will allow you to stay permanently in France and then 3 months before your longterm spouse visa expired you will have to apply online on the Prefecture (where you both reside) Website to extend this 'titre de sejour', you will choose 1 date & time and you will have to bring all the certificates you got on the first training day on this chosen day. By this You will get another year of residence permit WITHOUT exiting France and you can do this every year. Then after few years you will be able to obtain a 10 years residence card.


Cheers 
V

Thank you for the information. I think we will try to go through the marriage route, we're just really scared. I am curious about something as I was looking into what was needed for the Long Stay Visa to join your spouse, it says proof of insurance...May I ask what you did with this? If we get married, don't I immediately fall under my spouses health insurance? Or am I going to need to buy separate international medical insurance? I was looking into some that cover pregnancy and they are VERY expensive...something I can't afford.

It also states to show proof of sufficient funds...did you use your husband as your sponsor? And if so, what was the minimum in his account that he had to show...? Ugh, We are so stressed out. I am tying my best to remain calm about all of this...

I guess you are right about the fact that is it easier for me to get a visa than some countries.

We also looked at another option of getting married and then he moves to another country in the EU, whereas by EU law I am allowed to go with him without obtaining to that country visa, I would just have to make myself known in the country and this given a work permit...

This is freaking me out...seriously. I'm sorry to seem weird or sound rude, but I am clearly freaked out.

VctoriaDuplenne wrote:

If you don't want to get married then you can do this until you see that you are going to give birth in France.

V

And what do you mean? I can come back when I give birth and therefore be given the right to stay after the birth?

Hi again..
about the insurance, it's not immediately fall under his coverage like you thought, there is something he need to do. my husband was covered (also) by an insurance from his company where he works, so he add my name on his coverage as 'spouse', the insurance that time was Previnter (now we are with AXA PPP International). So please ask your BF about his insurance whether he can add your name under his name. then you can print out a proof page from the website or ask the insurance company to send you a proof letter then provide this for the long term spouse visa (i think you know this part hehehe)

Yes, my husband is my sponsor. i'm trying to remember....if i'm not wrong he showed more than 5,000 euros but less than 10,000 in his bank account. and also he gave the last 3 months salary payment from his company. When i read that your BF have a saving account at 20,000 it is more than enough to show.

About the other EU countries, i don't know anything about it, hehe..

You DO NOT SOUND RUDE AT ALL to me, i understand if you freak out for this situation. i am pleased to at least give a few information and really hope that it could help rather than reply with some negative words
You are completely right about it is impossible to get French citizenship just because you are pregnant of a French guy, and you read the correct website of French government! Keep on this website.
For information ( to those who do not know but tried to act like it    ) : after your marriage with a French citizen, you still need to do a lot a looooot of things and steps before you can get a French national ID (citizenship) : live together with your french spouse continuously for at least 4 years after wedding date and able to prove  it, have residence permit (extensive) for some years, then apply for 10 years residence card, speak the language well, have a huge knowledge about France and the government and the history and there will be an exam about that (so it's not automatically done just by being a mother of a french child) be able to prove a lot of things asked by the government etc etc.

About the last quote ; i wrote that based on what my husband explain that the immigration will not bother to extend your visa if they see that your pregnancy still allow you to travel back (for example : your belly is not big enough) so if it is the opposite ; you're already in France at your 7th month pregnancy, and when your visa will be expired you are at your 9th month and you will request an extension because you are about to give birth, they would give it.
But I don't know if they will give you the right to stay after giving birth, have you asked your BF to get information about PACS?


Yes, keep calm and be healthy, just  believe that everything will be just fine.  Believe me Indonesian citizen are very hard to get a schengen visa, but i succeed, plenty times, and so will you!! 

PS; excuse me for my bad english 
and, please remove the idea of overstaying in France for any reason because French immigration is very strict with this since you in anyway have time to request an extension before your visa expired.


V

you may contact me, and I will try to help you

Marriage might be the easier option but getting PACSé will allow you to live in the country, be covered under the national insurance as well as any mutuelle your BF has and has the added benefit of being incredibly easy and cheap to dissolve.  A divorce costs money, lawyers and time.  Not pleasant to consider now, I know, but one must take this quite seriously, particularly as an expat.  Consider dealing with a baby in a foreign country and having to deal with a divorce which could take a year to complete.  I would strongly consider getting PACSé first so that you don't put your relationship and yourself under so much stress.  There is one negative though and it's a big one.  You have to wait one year before you will be able to work in France.  You might want to consider going back home for a few months then returning to get PACSé so that year of not working starts later in your pregnancy, if not working for a year is an issue.  Do you speak French? 

Get all the info first on getting PACSé.  It's super important to not make the wrong move right now and screw up your chances for everything working out as it should.  The gov't website is confusing, read through slowly and consider going to the prefecture to request a list of everything you'll need for the process.  For either the marriage or getting PACSé.  Good luck!

I am American and PACSé, by the way and have lived here for a few years.

The laws in France have recently changed, to become much stricter, about nationality for babies born on French soil.  I'm not sure how it applies to your situation since the father is French but I'd definitely seek legal advice.

You have access to free legal help at the CIDJ as you are under 25. It's the Centre d'Information et de Documentation Jeunesse. Click here for more information:
http://www.cidj.com/agenda/rencontrez-g … s-de-paris

You don't need an appointment but can just turn up. If you can't speak French, go with your boyfriend.

Remain Calm, leave within your visa and apply to come back, overstaying on your visa is stupid that will get you on a list, or in a pile of paper that is not a priority.
Living here for longer than 3 months will change your tax status, you could end up paying tax in your home country and in France, pay tax & get a job.
Go down the town hall talk befriend a civil servant. Fill out the forms follow the rules, they will help you, They're not monsters but they are bound by rules and very forensic systems. If the ideas represented don't work you might consider going to other countries outside of Europe and your home territories.
Honesty and respect goes a very long way, I'd have a little glance see if my civil servants wearing a wedding ring and smile alot.