Moving to Ajijic/Chapala from Florida

Boricua1 wrote:

Thank you gentlemen so much for any and all information you post. It really is helpful information for someone who hasn't the foggiest notion about how to do this. Basically, I just know that I cannot retire here in the US, that I am a fluent Spanish Speaker and I have my only 2 children here in CA. so I don't want to go to far from them. I will have less than $2000 a month to retire on and I just read from one of you kind people that SMA is one of the more expensive places to retire in. Does anyone have an idea of a less expensive place? Anywhere closer to the border, that is SAFE, has a large community of US retirees, and there is no shooting in the streets just for the fun of it. Trying to plan the rest of my life at this point seems overwhelming but I have been a single working parent all of my life and just never had the possibility to plan for the inevitable-retirement. Now, it is upon me and I am trying to make sense out of all the blogs that have been written so kindly, so see how to move forward with this in the year that I have left before I move.   
God bless you all for your comments.

The idea posted by another to use your Spanish heritage to get a leg up is an excellent idea. I would check into that when you visit the embassy there in the states.

As for the states you might try, I would say avoid any border town.This link can show you where the more dangerous areas are http://stanford.edu/~dkronick/mexico_crime/. I haven't lived in Hermosillo, in the state of Sonora but I have visited there and It seems like a nice modern town not very far from the border.Over all it is far safer here than in much of the U.S.

I think you have received some good ideas from several of us who actually live in Mexico. Please ignore the insults directed at you and  at some of us coming from outside of Mexico.

Thank you for your kind words. I have determined that I would post on here for information I so badly need and do admit that I may be ignorant about many things regarding retiring in Mexico.  So, I do thank everyone who has taken the time to inform me about any aspect at all they feel would be helpful to me. It's not easy to even contemplate this move and to do it alone, kind of shakes my foundation a little. If anyone has any ideas about anything at all they learned, please share them with me.
Again, you guy are so very wonderful. Thank you. ( Insults don't settle for too long as I am too excited over this new phase in my life and am focused on how wonderful you guys are!)

As I said, just take it one step at a time. That way we advance better! Select a place to land in and look around. I continue to recommend Central Mexico. The border states are the most dangerous and in any case you will want to be near a major airport for a choice of cheap CA flights. That would mean Guadalajara or Mexico City. Believe me, that makes a difference. It is a wonderful region with lots of amenities. From where ever you land - SMA or elsewhere, (SMA is easy for nice short term rentals, and with all the gringos you won't feel lost and can get lots of good advice! it could be a good place to land for a newbie) - you can easily take some buses around and visit other cities. You need to see how you feel there and look at some options. This is simply common sense. Good luck!

Guadalajara is a good hub from California.  There's an airline Volaris that has some cheap fares to and from Guadalajara.

Just out of curiosity, I searched for apartments in SMA (San Miguel de Allende.)  I came up with offers in the range of $1,000 US and up per week.  Monthly, minimum $ 1000.  Just for drill, I'm paying $370-400US for a nice 2 bedroom including all utilities.  I could easily pay 3 to 4 times that much if I wanted luxury.  One thing I don't have is any kind of American community.  But I specifically didn't want that.  If you speak Spanish there's no need, in my opinion.

In central Mexico, there's the Chapala/Ajijic area with several small towns making up the area and SMA north of Mexico City.  South of Mexico City there's Cuernavaca and Taxco.  I have been told all of them are quite expensive, expensive compared to my $370-400.

Of course, there are all the beach resorts from Mazatlan to Manzanillo and south plus Cancun to Tulum on the Riviera Maya.

Going to these places and contacting real estate agents is not the worst thing you could do.

Thank you, as a place to land is is especially important. Now with this kind of insider info. I can start to plan a visit this year to see all these places in order to have a better idea. God bless you.

I forgot to ask if that's what you pay weekly or monthly for your place?

Monthly.

Another question for you - I have so many - I have worked and earned medical coverage thru SS, which is what I plan to use there. Can I use this medical coverage there or does that become void and null since it is not the US?

Boricua1 wrote:

Another question for you - I have so many - I have worked and earned medical coverage thru SS, which is what I plan to use there. Can I use this medical coverage there or does that become void and null since it is not the US?

Many resident from the US have dropped the Part B coverage and saved the money since you can't use it here for doctor fees. I have heard rumors, off and on, the there are clinics that process the claims, but it was just one or two. I thought there was one in the Lake Chapala area, but don't hold me to that.

There are two government health policies: IMSS and Seguro Social (see http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/how-m … s-1.777348)

Thank you.

Medicare is not available outside the US. 

There are three possibilities for insurance in Mexico and there's always cash.
1. Cash - a check up with a private physician will cost between 500 and 1000 pesos.  Routine blood tests around the same.  Many prescription drugs cost less than the copay for the drugs in the US.

2. Private insurance - If you don't have any chronic conditions, the premium may be quite low.  If you have COPD, Hi blood pressure, diabetes, etc.  premiums could be prohibitive.

3. IMSS - that's the social security system in Mexico.  Coverage is around $300 a year.  There's a lot of bureaucracy, long waits to see the doctor and get blood work done,  Many drugs are not covered or out of stock in which you have to get them from a private pharmacy.

4. Seguro Popular - no cost unless you are quite rich in US terms.  Covers a list, fairly extensive, of illnesses and treatments plus diagnostic tests, drugs and emergency room.  It has most of the disadvantages of IMSS.  I have Seguro Popular which I use mostly for emergency room.  I went to the emergency room once.  My "primary care physician" is competent by any standard however I need to leave the house at 6:30AM to get a bus to get me to the Health Center to take a number to take a number that gives me a place in line to see my doc who doesn't arrive till 10 AM.  I used to use him for blood tests and prescription medicines.

I have a place in Texas and being over 60, I get a 50% discount on bus fares.  Round trip costs $50-60US.  I have Medicare including a Medicare Supplement (Medigap) plus prescription drug coverage.  The total premium is not cheap but everything's covered.  Given that my other expenses are low, I am able to afford the insurance and travel.  I have several conditions that could be life threatening and I decided if it was something serious and I had time to get to Texas, I wanted my care to be in English.  That has been working out quite well.

So let me be sure to understand all of this .....I understand that with all these options available, it sounds like the one that makes most sense for me would also be the one you have. I would then pay the costs of Medicare in order to keep it for the states. Mine is sort of expensive. I got the bill for the first three months of coverage, due to begin in August. For me it is $314 for 3 months. I don't suppose theres anyway to cancel it and just have it for the times I would be traveling to the US?

The only thing I'm sure of is that if you cancel Part B or opt out in the beginning, and at a later date wish to re-enroll for it, there is a penalty and the monthly cost is higher.

Gotcha!

That's Part B only, isn't it?

You have to maintain continuous coverage or you pay a penalty that can be significant.

Boy, they get you coming and going.

Ever heard that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme?  Well maybe not technically, but it doesn't come anywhere close to paying what it ought to and it takes current workers' contributions to pay benefits to retirees.

Medicare relies on a large number of people not living long enough to collect and is designed so that you are dependent on government for the rest of your life, as is SS pensions.

I'll be damned. I have been working since I was14. Even when I had my baby I worked on the Wednesday then we had Thursday and Friday off for Thanksgiving, the week=end off . Monday when I returned to work I no longer had my belly because I had delivered her on Saturday. In other words as a single working mom I had to go immediately back to work. I have done nothing but work my whole life and now during my "golden years" my uncle Sam wants to be a prick. What a reward!

I won't argue there.

Ponce?  Is that Ponce,PR?

Yes, it is. I was born there, raised in NJ and moved to CA. about 22 years ago.  Had I mentioned Puerto Rico before? I don't remember saying that before!

gudgrief wrote:

Ever heard that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme?  Well maybe not technically, but it doesn't come anywhere close to paying what it ought to and it takes current workers' contributions to pay benefits to retirees.

Medicare relies on a large number of people not living long enough to collect and is designed so that you are dependent on government for the rest of your life, as is SS pensions.

S.S. is something you were required to pay into, it's more a savings account than anything else and it's solvent. It is not a ponzi scheme, unless you consider a savings account a scheme of some sort. The people working today are not working to support you, they are saving to support themselves when they retire. Unless of course the congress dips in to S.S. again to fund another war.
It's not dependence on the government you have to worry about, but dependence on the pharmaceutical and medical corporations. If you are healthy and fit you wouldn't need constant medical attention and hands full of drugs. That's the real problem with Medicare. When you take 5 meds for the side effects of two meds you should wonder. I've worked in the medical field most of my life, so I've seen a radical shift to dependence on the drug and medical fields up close and personal..We are funding sickness not health.

It can't be a savings account, there's not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you.  If you die before you retire, the money you and your employer put into it goes to several other beneficiaries.  The actual money you put into it went to people who retired years ago. generation after generation get a lower return than the generation before.  And the more you put in the lower your return.  That part is similar to a Ponzi scheme.

gudgrief wrote:

It can't be a savings account, there's not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you.  If you die before you retire, the money you and your employer put into it goes to several other beneficiaries.  The actual money you put into it went to people who retired years ago. generation after generation get a lower return than the generation before.  And the more you put in the lower your return.  That part is similar to a Ponzi scheme.

It's either a Ponzi scheme or not. Many things are "part" of a scheme. Insurance for example.
The lower return is hype as the tax can be raised by legislation and so the benefits. Ponzi schemes are notorious for making large incomes for the operator, but not here. Lastly, enlarge the statement . . .not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you. You can, at any time before retirement, find what you and your employer's investment is.

gudgrief, youve be reliable in the past and on this thread. Why now?

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

It can't be a savings account, there's not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you.  If you die before you retire, the money you and your employer put into it goes to several other beneficiaries.  The actual money you put into it went to people who retired years ago. generation after generation get a lower return than the generation before.  And the more you put in the lower your return.  That part is similar to a Ponzi scheme.

It's either a Ponzi scheme or not. Many things are "part" of a scheme. Insurance for example.
The lower return is hype as the tax can be raised by legislation and so the benefits. Ponzi schemes are notorious for making large incomes for the operator, but not here. Lastly, enlarge the statement . . .not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you. You can, at any time before retirement, find what you and your employer's investment is.

gudgrief, youve be reliable in the past and on this thread. Why now?

Why now?  Because there's more misinformation floating around than accurate information.
OK, you don't like the characterization of Ponzi Scheme, it's a scam at any rate.
Do some research on Future Value, Internal Rate of Return, and Net Present Value so you can check my claims.
If only 5% of everyone's income were invested in conservative securities like municipal bonds and Treasury Bills when the interest rates looked good,  a minimum 5% return could have been guaranteed over the last (2014-1945) 69 years.  That would have let you and me buy annuities that would have given us incomes from retirement "savings" 2 to 4 times as much as Social Security.  And since the employer didn't have to contribute, his part or part of his part could have been collect as a tax, hell his taxable income would have increased because he wasn't contributing, a tax to help widows, orphans, the disabled and the poor.

Since you are such a stickler for the correct word, how about acknowledging that Social Security Tax is not savings because none of it goes into an account that vests in your favor.  That is, whatever the accounting and whatever the report they send you, the money you pay doesn't belong to you anymore and the government can change the terms at any time without your consent or giving you any other option.

gudgrief wrote:

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

It can't be a savings account, there's not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you.  If you die before you retire, the money you and your employer put into it goes to several other beneficiaries.  The actual money you put into it went to people who retired years ago. generation after generation get a lower return than the generation before.  And the more you put in the lower your return.  That part is similar to a Ponzi scheme.

It's either a Ponzi scheme or not. Many things are "part" of a scheme. Insurance for example.
The lower return is hype as the tax can be raised by legislation and so the benefits. Ponzi schemes are notorious for making large incomes for the operator, but not here. Lastly, enlarge the statement . . .not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you. You can, at any time before retirement, find what you and your employer's investment is.

gudgrief, youve be reliable in the past and on this thread. Why now?

Why now?  Because there's more misinformation floating around than accurate information.
OK, you don't like the characterization of Ponzi Scheme, it's a scam at any rate.
Do some research on Future Value, Internal Rate of Return, and Net Present Value so you can check my claims.
If only 5% of everyone's income were invested in conservative securities like municipal bonds and Treasury Bills when the interest rates looked good,  a minimum 5% return could have been guaranteed over the last (2014-1945) 69 years.  That would have let you and me buy annuities that would have given us incomes from retirement "savings" 2 to 4 times as much as Social Security.  And since the employer didn't have to contribute, his part or part of his part could have been collect as a tax, hell his taxable income would have increased because he wasn't contributing, a tax to help widows, orphans, the disabled and the poor.

Since you are such a stickler for the correct word, how about acknowledging that Social Security Tax is not savings because none of it goes into an account that vests in your favor.  That is, whatever the accounting and whatever the report they send you, the money you pay doesn't belong to you anymore and the government can change the terms at any time without your consent or giving you any other option.

There are very few if any safe investments now. as I said SSI is "sort of like" a savings account yet obviously isn't  in fact. Savings accounts have a very poor return, property unless you of the 1% persuasion was one of the gold standards investment wise and is now less useful than a savings account. Annuities are said to " be more sold than bought" for a very good reason. I was the executrix of my aunts estate, when all cost of the Insurance products she bought in to were accounted for I was stunned by how much she paid for such a very poor return. The 401K was designed by wealthy individuals as a tax deferment tool which had a very unimpressive return for the average person, but impressive costs. The Roth IRA and 401 K have been more useful. To date SSI has provided some untaxed help for many who really needed it. I have known several people who never made enough to cause them to have SSI taxed. Unlike IRAs, annuities, CD's etc. they do not have to pay fees to get their SSI check. Any group can change the rules any time and this congress has been quick to change the rules on many things.

If SSI were a Ponzi scheme it would be a pretty badly designed one, because it's been paying out instead of cashing out on the top end since 1939. If you look closely you might see that the projections of SSI's future are based on worst case scenarios that do not take into account the people who never collect. People like my uncle who never had SSI because he worked for the military, my grandfather, and mother who died before collecting. My grandmother who collected for only 4 years, and of course all the people who are currently dying from out of control disease processes.

travellight wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

joaquinx wrote:

It's either a Ponzi scheme or not. Many things are "part" of a scheme. Insurance for example.
The lower return is hype as the tax can be raised by legislation and so the benefits. Ponzi schemes are notorious for making large incomes for the operator, but not here. Lastly, enlarge the statement . . .not one penny in the Social Security Trust Fund that belongs to you. You can, at any time before retirement, find what you and your employer's investment is.

gudgrief, youve be reliable in the past and on this thread. Why now?

Why now?  Because there's more misinformation floating around than accurate information.
OK, you don't like the characterization of Ponzi Scheme, it's a scam at any rate.
Do some research on Future Value, Internal Rate of Return, and Net Present Value so you can check my claims.
If only 5% of everyone's income were invested in conservative securities like municipal bonds and Treasury Bills when the interest rates looked good,  a minimum 5% return could have been guaranteed over the last (2014-1945) 69 years.  That would have let you and me buy annuities that would have given us incomes from retirement "savings" 2 to 4 times as much as Social Security.  And since the employer didn't have to contribute, his part or part of his part could have been collect as a tax, hell his taxable income would have increased because he wasn't contributing, a tax to help widows, orphans, the disabled and the poor.

Since you are such a stickler for the correct word, how about acknowledging that Social Security Tax is not savings because none of it goes into an account that vests in your favor.  That is, whatever the accounting and whatever the report they send you, the money you pay doesn't belong to you anymore and the government can change the terms at any time without your consent or giving you any other option.

There are very few if any safe investments now. as I said SSI is "sort of like" a savings account yet obviously isn't  in fact. Savings accounts have a very poor return, property unless you of the 1% persuasion was one of the gold standards investment wise and is now less useful than a savings account. Annuities are said to " be more sold than bought" for a very good reason. I was the executrix of my aunts estate, when all cost of the Insurance products she bought in to were accounted for I was stunned by how much she paid for such a very poor return. The 401K was designed by wealthy individuals as a tax deferment tool which had a very unimpressive return for the average person, but impressive costs. The Roth IRA and 401 K have been more useful. To date SSI has provided some untaxed help for many who really needed it. I have known several people who never made enough to cause them to have SSI taxed. Unlike IRAs, annuities, CD's etc. they do not have to pay fees to get their SSI check. Any group can change the rules any time and this congress has been quick to change the rules on many things.

If SSI were a Ponzi scheme it would be a pretty badly designed one, because it's been paying out instead of cashing out on the top end since 1939. If you look closely you might see that the projections of SSI's future are based on worst case scenarios that do not take into account the people who never collect. People like my uncle who never had SSI because he worked for the military, my grandfather, and mother who died before collecting. My grandmother who collected for only 4 years, and of course all the people who are currently dying from out of control disease processes.

How about trying to live on a $10,000 pension?
http://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2014/07/14/ … nd-the-old

gudgrief wrote:

How about trying to live on a $10,000 pension?
http://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2014/07/14/ … nd-the-old

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

How about trying to live on a $10,000 pension?
http://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2014/07/14/ … nd-the-old

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

Once again to the heart of the matter!  and you didn't even have to mention this, but I did :"The importance of Ayn Rand for modern conservatism would be difficult to overestimate. This has always been ironic given her staunch atheism, something that is completely at odds with almost everything in conservatism in America today. Less ironic is the recent revelation that Ayn Rand was a hypocrite: she secretly accepted government assistance instead of relying on the proceeds of all those books in which she decried government assistance.

A heavy smoker who refused to believe that smoking causes cancer brings to mind those today who are equally certain there is no such thing as global warming. Unfortunately, Miss Rand was a fatal victim of lung cancer. " Yep died on assistance, a medical and mental wreck.

joaquinx wrote:

gudgrief wrote:

How about trying to live on a $10,000 pension?
http://ari.aynrand.org/blog/2014/07/14/ … nd-the-old

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

And isn't it amazing that everything predicted in Atlas shrugged came to pass except the absolute failure of the statist system, but that is getting closer every day.

Are you living on $10,000 a year?

Hola Gudgrief,
Como estas? I am still working on my plan to retire in Mexico within the next 2 years. Again, you have been so very helpful and generous with all your information, thank you. It looks now like Cuernavaca will very possibly be the town I will retire in. I have a very dear and loving girl friend who has so very generously offered me her home there. Her generousity will make it possible for me to retire in the town of 'eternal springtime'.  I'm going to be just fine.
Are you familiar with Cuernavaca or it's newcomers group?
Como aprendistes tu el espanol ? Vives cerca de este pueblo?

Boricua1 wrote:

Hola Gudgrief,
Como estas? I am still working on my plan to retire in Mexico within the next 2 years. Again, you have been so very helpful and generous with all your information, thank you. It looks now like Cuernavaca will very possibly be the town I will retire in. I have a very dear and loving girl friend who has so very generously offered me her home there. Her generousity will make it possible for me to retire in the town of 'eternal springtime'.  I'm going to be just fine.
Are you familiar with Cuernavaca or it's newcomers group?
Saludos Boricua1,
Como aprendistes tu el espanol ? Vives cerca de este pueblo?

The last time I was in Cuernavaca was 25+ years ago, sorry to say.
Zacatecas is 420 miles from Cuernavaca.  Not very close.
I took Latin and French in high school.
The Navy sent me to Spain for 2 years and had me take a Spanish class on base.
Years later General Motors sent me to Mexico in charge of information systems at a new assembly plant.
My people read English OK but few spoke it.  It was up to me to improve my Spanish.
Que te vaya bien.

Check out Mexperience, great information.  If you purchase their eBooks (Immigrating to Mexico, Mexican Health Care, etc) and the book is updated yearly or bi-yearly, your original purchase entitles you to a free or inexpensive updated version.  Hard to beat!

I just chk't out that web-site-I had joined earlier and when I asked them to re-send my log-in info. They just sent me someone else' info-how much they paid, their private number, etc....NOT GOOD!

Boricua1 wrote:

I just chk't out that web-site-I had joined earlier and when I asked them to re-send my log-in info. They just sent me someone else' info-how much they paid, their private number, etc....NOT GOOD!

YIKES!!!

I know, but I have called the person, left my number and am hoping she calls me so we can straighten this out for her.

Re: Mexperience and checking baggage at bus stations.
I have been to only one bus station where checking baggage other than coach side was offered.
Many have check rooms where you can leave your bags for a small fee but won't try to take them to your bus.
You have to hire a porter for that.

This is a rather strange thread! I have not received notice of it previously. There should certainly be better sources thatn Mexperience for information regarding Mexican health care. It is true - you cannot use Medicare in Mexico, but if you go back frequently to see your kids, you could profit from it. It is up to you to decide. That is great news about your friend in Cuernavaca. It is not IMO among the most beautiful cities in Mexico, but it is not awful (as in industrial grit, etc), it has a nice cultural life, and if your friend lives up in the hills, that could be quite pleasant. It is very near interesting and beautiful places like Tepoztlan, and of course close to Mexico City which is an extraordinary city. There are buses straight to the airport, quite easy. Volaris is getting bad reports on the Michoacan blog, but Interjet is highly recommended: huge luggage allowance, free extras, etc. They go to CA, check out their site. So really you are quite lucky; any home is better than none, but the home that has come to you from heaven has a lot of advantages. Good luck!

Thank you. Are you anywhere near there??

There are four options for expat healthcare in Mexico plus contracting with an insurance company inside or outside Mexico for coverage.  Premiums can be fairly high depending on age and general health but probably somewhat less than Obamacare if you're under 65.  The government services below are not available to tourists.

1) Private physicians, hospitals and other services.  Most prices are a lot lower than the US and if you are healthy you may be able to cover the expenses out of pocket.  Exams around 1000 pesos, extensive lab tests 1,000 pesos or less.  Surgery 10,000. 20,000 pesos and up.  Be sure you get a recommendation from someone you trust.  charlatan's and incompetents take a long time to weed out.

2) IMSS - Instituto Mexicano de Seguro Social costs about $300/yr including prescription drugs on an as available basis.  It may take a multi day process to get an appointment to see a primary care physician and appointments to see a specialist may require a 3 month wait.  If a prescription drug is permanently out of stock or not covered you have to buy it from a private pharmacy.  You do get to go to the emergency room at a specific hospital without charge.

3) Seguro Popular - similar to IMSS but separate staffs and facilities.  A slightly limited list of conditions and treatments are covered but there's no charge unless you are quite affluent by US standards.  Same level of bureaucracy, delays and shortages apply.

4)  Medicare - if you can establish a residence in the US and it's not too time consuming or expensive to get to a border city with good facilities, this may be the best option using IMSS or Seguro Popular for emergencies.

I live within reasonable travel time to the border and have resident status in Texas so a combination of Seguro Popular and Medicare/Medigap Plan F works well for me.

I should mention I pay out of pocket for dental and vision care.  The rates are quite reasonable compared to the States.