Fake nationality

Hello Filza,



In consideration for all of our other members, would you kindly post in English only in this Anglophone forum. Your cooperation and understanding will be greatly appreciated by everyone. If you wish to post in Portuguese please click on the down arrow next to the UK flag in the green banner you see at the top of the page and select the Portuguese language forums there.

Since I am fluent in Portuguese I will answer your question.

First of all, I don't exactly understand what you mean by NATIONALITY since it is quite different from the word CITIZENSHIP in terms of the law.

Nationality only comes with birth... if you are born in a country you have nationality. If you naturalize then you become a citizen of that country.

I don't understand if you are trying to say that the person has false documents stating that he/she was born in Mozambique, and thus is a natural of that country; or if you're saying that the person has somehow managed to go through the naturalization process and has fraudulently gained citizenship by some means???

In either case, it is going to be rather difficult for you to prove that is in fact the case. Also making that kind of an accusation without concrete evidence to prove it can lead to some very serious criminal and civil consequences for you. You must be aware of that fact before you decide to do anything. At the very least, if you are wrong the individual would have just cause to bring on a civil action seeking compensation for any financial and moral damages suffered. In a "worst case scenario" you could be subject to criminal prosecution. You need to be extremely careful whatever you do.

If you do have such proof then you should be contacting the Mozambique immigration authorities and pass the information and proof to them. In the meantime I would advise you NOT to make any public statements about the person involved since this, in itself, could subject you to the consequences I mentioned above.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, EB Experts Team

wjwoodward wrote:

Nationality only comes with birth... if you are born in a country you have nationality. If you naturalize then you become a citizen of that country.

James. Help me out, here. I don't understand your first bit. Surely nationality comes with naturalisation too. One can have more than one nationality, of course. I myself am a national of three jurisdictions (one of which is not an independent nation...!), and a citizen of those same three. You are probably a national and citizen of two, aren't you? Also - just for the record - it's a not uncommon occurrence for someone to be born in a country and be denied its nationality and citizenship.

The person has fake birth certificate. He was born in Zimbabwe not Mozambique.
His birthdate is not the one that is in hiz Mozambican Identity card.
Should i report to KPMG?

See your private messages

Filza wrote:

The person has fake birth certificate. He was born in Zimbabwe not Mozambique.
His birthdate is not the one that is in hiz Mozambican Identity card. Should i report to KPMG?

My anarchist inclinations tell me "NO". You may be destroying the man's life. You shouldn't do that casually; there has to be a good reason to destroy a person's life. Is there a good reason?

No Gordon, many people confuse the terms but NATIONALITY comes with birth and a person only ever has one nationality. CITIZENSHIP is an entirely different matter and depending on the nation that can be acquired in a number of different ways. You can also be a citizen of a number of countries if they all recognize multiple citizenship.

So, while my nationality is Canadian, if I were to naturalize as a Brazilian I would have dual citizenship Canadian/Brazilian, but my nationality would not change. I would always have Canadian nationality.

Cheers,
James

Oh yes, and you're absolutely correct Gordon, there are certain circumstances even if you're born in a country that you don't get either nationality or citizenship; but they are rare indeed.

My son has Brazilian nationality and citizenship since he was born here because of the legal concept of Jus Soli. He automatically qualified for Canadian citizenship under the legal concept of Jus Sanguinis, but he will never have Canadian nationality. One can change citizenship, but you can't change nationality, not in legal terms anyway.

wjwoodward wrote:

No Gordon, many people confuse the terms but NATIONALITY comes with birth and a person only ever has one nationality. CITIZENSHIP is an entirely different matter and depending on the nation that can be acquired in a number of different ways. You can also be a citizen of a number of countries if they all recognize multiple citizenship.
So, while my nationality is Canadian, if I were to naturalize as a Brazilian I would have dual citizenship Canadian/Brazilian, but my nationality would not change. I would always have Canadian nationality.

Hmmm. Well, James, you may be right, of course, in which case you might want to correct Wikipedia*** (see below). It does make mistakes, as we all know. But would you want to correct the immigration officials of the several nations I have visited since I began using my UK and Cayman Islands passports? The US in particular is usually very fussy about such things. Even though my C I passport notes that I was born in Australia, border-authorities never, ever, bat an eyelid when I report my nationality as that of my passport. Indeed, they would probably give me a hard time if I were to claim Australian nationality on my entry-forms. Since I have let my Australian passport lapse, am I lying on my entry-forms? (The forms invariably ask what nationality I am, not what citizenship I possess.)

British nationality is (or was; maybe the law has changed again recently) specifically denied to persons born in the UK whose parents are not British. My son was born there in 1976, and is British. If he had been born there three years later, he would not be.

So. While you MAY be right, and I would normally defer to your judgment, on this occasion I suspect you're not.

*** Nationality versus citizenship
'In a number of countries, nationality is legally a distinct concept from citizenship, or nationality is a necessary but not sufficient condition to exercise full political rights within a state or other polity. Conceptually, citizenship is focused on the internal political life of the state, and nationality is a matter of international dealings'

Guess that's why your CI passport lists you as being born in Australia since that is truly your nationality, you were born there.

Yes, under Jus Soli you may not get nationality in a country because some use a combination of both Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis, you must not only be born in that country but your parents must also have that nationality. In those cases one usually gets the nationality of their father provided that the father's country observes both Jus Soli and Jus Sanguinis concepts.

You need to ask yourself only one question to really understand the true difference between nationality and citizenship:

Can I be stripped of my nationality? The answer to that is NO. On the other hand any nation can strip you of your citizenship.

I will admit it is a very confusing subject since there has been such a great deal of misuse of both terms for so many years that even legislators don't even truly know what they mean anymore.

Anyway, we're kind of drifting  which certainly isn't going to help the OP in her situation.

wjwoodward wrote:

Guess that's why your CI passport lists you as being born in Australia since that is truly your nationality, you were born there. I will admit it is a very confusing subject since there has been such a great deal of misuse of both terms for so many years that even legislators don't even truly know what they mean anymore.

Anyway, we're kind of drifting  which certainly isn't going to help the OP in her situation.

Yes it is a confusing topic, but a very important one. Some day we should explore it on another thread. (By the way, in my observation, ALL passports note the holders' places of birth; I don't think that indicates anything of consequence.)

And, yes, we have drifted off-topic, and I apologise to the administrators that. I'm dying to learn whether the OP is going to turn her man in to the local authorities - and what danger it might pose to her society if she doesn't.

The lady is stepping into unknown territory by doing this.
He may well retaliate.

Nationality for me is my country of birth, New Zealand. I am an Australian citizen with an Oz passport which has my NZ birthplace in it.