The most important advice you'll get as a would be expat!

One of my professors at university used to say "The international language of science and commerce is broken English!"
If you are content with only conversing simple topics and information, then you can get by in this international language. But if you want to be intellectually stimulated, at least every now and then, or if you even want to understand and take part in the local society and life of the people around you, there is no substitute for learning their language.
Thanks, WJ, for bringing up this very important topic!

I have to agree.
You can't do much if you can't even understand how much you're being charged for a bottle of drinking water.

Learn the local lingo.

Language and culture to me are the prerequisites for working in another country.
I have found that even if you mangle the language most people appreciate the fact that your are attempting to speak it.

You need to learn a little about the culture so that you do not upset the locals by doing something, which to you is okay, but to them is culturally insensitive.

Do not just buy into the propaganda spread by English schools worldwide that if you speak English you'll be able to communicate with people all over the world.

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Shhh - you'll put a load of teachers out of a job.

More seriously, English will get you a long way in a lot of countries because there are so many people who speak English and, more importantly, want to practice their English language skills with a native English speaker (or an Australian ).

For tourism, that's fine, but it's bugger all use if you're in a country for the long term or, as in my case, until some sod digs a hole and stuffs me in it (Assuming a politically stupid party doesn't gain power and ruin the country, forcing me to leave before I peg it).

As for learning cultural norms - absolutely essential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK_NinOmFWw

You're absolutely right Fred. English will always be one of the most important languages to learn since there are so many nations where it is the official language or the second language, so if you travel it will serve you well.

As a teacher with a career that spans over 25 years from my own observations what the schools that teach it don't tell you is that if you plan on taking up long-term residence in a non-English speaking nation it will be of little or no help to you at all. Of course they're in business to make money, so they make learning the language look like a "magic bullet". In a non-English speaking country it is not!

The fact remains that in this respect NOTHING substitutes learning the local language. It's your key to success (or failure if you don't). Many nations are actually quite resistant to learning English and speaking it, after all why should they? IMHO it's up to us to adapt to them and not the other way around... if we want to live in a non-English speaking country it only stands to reason that the best way to prepare ourselves for that task is to learn their language and learn about their culture. Like Dorothy said, "I don't think we're in Kansas anymore Toto".

If you want to "fit" in find work, live a normal life in another country then LEARN the language and culture. If not you will find it rough going.

Even if you are going as an expat to retire the above holds true.

Bob K

The only way to survive in the foreign countries is knowing the local language and the culture....then rest is easy to know.

Good post. I have found this dismissive attitude about local languages most marked among non-native English speakers. Although Americans (I'm not one) are scorned for not having a clue about foreign languages, most who spend time abroad adapt fairly well. I have found that it's those who have learned English as a foreign language who are its true "imperialists", vocally critical of those who don't speak it.

Not every expat needs to learn the local language of every place he or she lives for periods of time. For me, "expat" has (in effect) been my nationality in all of the countries I have lived and/or worked in - because I have been there temporarily. I have socialised mainly with other expats, and make no excuse for that. I distinguish between "expat" and "immigrant". Immigrants are people who intend to live in the foreign country of their choice. It makes sense for them to learn the local language. For expats - living somewhere for only a few years at a time - it doesn't make sense. Some of us have several flags beside our names, in this forum. Does anybody really and truly think we should have learned every language we've encountered? Forget it!

Gordon: What you describe as "Expat" I would call "Homeless".
I always immersed myself in the local culture and society, however long or short my stay, because otherwise
- my life would be boring and lonely,
- I miss out on a lot of experiences, and
- my social contacts would be limited to other "Homeless", who aren't usually the best to hang around with.

beppi wrote:

Gordon: What you describe as "Expat" I would call "Homeless".
I always immersed myself in the local culture and society, however long or short my stay, because otherwise
- my life would be boring and lonely,
- I miss out on a lot of experiences, and
- my social contacts would be limited to other "Homeless", who aren't usually the best to hang around with.

Beppi. You must have had some bad experiences with expats, in the various places you've lived. Here in my Caribbean island, 60% of the population of 60,000 are expats/immigrants, from about eighty nations. Limiting oneself to eighty nationalities is no deprivation, I assure you! I'm not going to list all the nations, but the main nationalities are (in rough order) Jamaica, Canada, Honduras, Philippines, India, Britain and USA. Even you could hardly be bored with such a variety to choose from.

Of course I don't know yourexact situation, and meant the (for me) stereotypical Expat, who never steers out of his/her comfort zone, eats only what he/she knows (from home), socializes with his peers in Expat clubs (which are organised according to origin country) and is, in other words, physically abroad but not mentally.
I have seen, in Asia, a (slightly elitist) British club in where domestic servants were not allowed at the pool, a German club offering Chinese brushpainting classes by a German teacher (they were popular), many groups where the main topic of conversation seemed to be how terrible the hostcountry is, a Chinese in multicultural Singapore who told me "I don't need to try Indian food, my friends told me it's not good" and other such things that made me cringe until I decided to focus on less miserable individuals to hang out with. My circle of friends did not become less international through it (I am not alone in my views, it seems), but my life richer.

wjwoodward wrote:

It never ceases to surprise me the number of people who immigrate to a foreign country that expect to find work in that country despite the fact that they are unable to speak the local language.

As someone who has been teaching English for over 25 years now and teaching Portuguese to English speakers here in Brazil for 12 years, I can tell you that while English may be called "The Universal Language of Business" it is NO SUBSTITUTE for the local language.

The really odd thing; if you said that about a foreigner in England, you'd be branded a racist for mentioning what is nothing more than common sense.

The most important advice you'll get as a would be expat!

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Why go to a country whose language you do not know?
I came to the English-speaking island nation of St. Lucia in 1991 because I was already speaking English from high school and going to a new place where I would have had to learn a new language did not make any sense to me.

After living and working as a dentist in Austria without speaking a word of German for one year it only made sense after a few months for me to want to go where I could save time by using the language I already knew instead of learning a new one.

Always do what comes easy and natural or you will lose to those who already do that ... 

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

Except there are some places where you could live your entire life without knowing the language.  People can easily live in Hong Kong, for example, with English.  You'd pay more for everything and get ripped off a lot, but it would still be easy to get around.

My job requires me to speak English all the time.  They don't want me to speak Chinese at all, no matter how much I know or don't know.

I work for an Icelandic company with Portuguese colleagues, and live with a German in Norway. I speak almost no Norwegian in my daily life despite living here, but I'm still learning the language. Calling for appointments at the doctors, official letters related to taxes, bills, and status in the country, traffic safety signs, etc are still all in Norwegian. Not to mention being willing to speak their language on their turf makes people more inclined to be patient and explain things when I'm confused about the system. Sure I COULD get by not speaking it but I know I'd be missing a lot of information.

Hi Gordon,

On this one I think we're going to agree to disagree my friend. I just can't imagine anyone who lives in a non-English speaking country being able to get by without at least a passable knowledge of the local language. I don't know about the local language of Vanatu but from you path flags I see that almost all of the nations where you've lived were English language countries.

How long were you in Spain and how did you get along there? I can't imagine any extended period there witout some Spanish? How would you order a lunch at a restaurant or know how many pesos the sun-dried tomato costs at the bakery? It is just impossible to interact with the local people in any meaningful way otherwise. If you can't interact with them and your limited only to dependence on other expats, why not stay home? Is it all about money? I didn't come here for money, nor for work and took the time to learn the language before I came here since I didn't want to end up being alone.

I really think that contrary to what you say that, "not every expat needs to learn the local language" they really do because not doing so makes us very vulnerable. It makes us unable to communicate in any meaningful way with those around us and not everybody has the luxury of working for an large multinational where many if not all of their co-workers will speak English. You have to depend on somebody trustworthy to look after your day-to-day living situations because they always depend on interactions with locals, unless you turn yourself into a hermit.

Just ask any American who makes the big mistake of coming to Brazil thinking that like all other South American countries they speak Spanish. They come here thinking that a basic knowledge of Spanish is going to get them through most situations and those it doesn't, well they'll be able to find some English speaker who can help out. DEAD WRONG. If I hadn't learned Portuguese before coming here I don't know what I would have done. I would certainly have had to return home very quickly otherwise or have had to spend the rest of my days confined (i.e. imprisoned) on the beach in Ipanema which is about the only place in this country where you'll consistently be able to find English speakers, of course they can't help you one damn bit, because they're all strangers here, lost just like you and in the same leaky boat.

I can say one thing with absolute certainty, if you learn the local language your life is going to be much richer and happier than if you don't.

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

wjwoodward wrote:

It never ceases to surprise me ....
By the way, this propaganda is aimed primarily at non-English speakers who want to move to English speaking nations where fluency in English is essential.... for them the statement is true, it doesn't necessarily work the other way around!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi James,
Going to a foreign country armed only with English is a mistake.  It's like going to a Buddhist temple to preach Catholic concepts or playing opera music to a rock'n'roll audience.

Everybody learns from his mistakes at his own pace which is determined by the person's education, aspirations and aptitudes.  We all correct ourselves at different times.

This is how we compete with one another.

With regards to how it never ceases to surprise you, please James continue to be surprised and keep on surprising us with your excellent topics. 

Playing opera to rockers.
Impossible - ask Freddie Murcury.

mas fred wrote:

Playing opera to rockers.
Impossible - ask Freddie Murcury.

You Tiger, why do you send me to Freddie when he already went to meet The Lord? 
What advice is it? 

wjwoodward wrote:

It never ceases to surprise me the number of people who immigrate to a foreign country that expect to find work in that country despite the fact that they are unable to speak the local language.

As someone who has been teaching English for over 25 years now and teaching Portuguese to English speakers here in Brazil for 12 years, I can tell you that while English may be called "The Universal Language of Business" it is NO SUBSTITUTE for the local language.

Just think about it, how in the world does one expect to communicate with their superiors, co-workers, customers, clients, etc., if they don't speak the local language? Don't you think that prospective employers are going to think about that too? It is unrealistic to simply expect that in a country where English is not the official language that you're going to be able to get by in even day-to-day situations without speaking the local language reasonably well. Actually this is the single largest factor that results in an expat's failure to adapt to their host country and causes most of them to return home earlier than expected.

Yes, speaking English (or any other second language) is a benefit when seeking employment. That said, one MUST be reasonably fluent in the local language of the country or they stand little chance of securing employment over someone who is a native speaker and also speaks English reasonably well.

Rather than wondering why you can't find work or complaining that you have not been sucessful in doing so after several months of attempting, invest your time and money in improving the skills that are obiously lacking and holding you back. LEARN THE LANGUAGE OF THE COUNTRY YOU'RE IN...... this is absolutely essential.

Do not just buy into the propaganda spread by English schools worldwide that if you speak English you'll be able to communicate with people all over the world. What they don't tell you is that is not always true. While you might find someone who speaks enough English in a foreign country so you can basic directions on a vacation; English is not going to help you one bit in day-to-day living or in working in a non-English speaking country and work environment. NOTHING, repeat NOTHING TAKES THE PLACE OF FLUENCY IN THE LOCAL LANGUAGE.

By the way, this propaganda is aimed primarily at non-English speakers who want to move to English speaking nations where fluency in English is essential.... for them the statement is true, it doesn't necessarily work the other way around!

Cheers,
William James Woodward, Expat-blog Experts Team

Hi James,
English "The Universal Language of Business"?
Now Chinese is coming strongly.
In 50-100 years from now, no other language will exist other than Chinese.

They say in 2025 the weather will be announced as follows:
At the North Pole powerful winds.
At the South Pole heavy snowing.
In the rest of China temperatures vary widly from meridian to meridian ... 

You're probably right with that prediction. At the rate Mandarin is being spoken you don't need a crystal ball to see that even in business it will one day take the lead from English. At the moment it still isn't really a "commercial" language, but soon!!!

wjwoodward wrote:

I just can't imagine anyone who lives in a non-English speaking country being able to get by without at least a passable knowledge of the local language. I don't know about the local language of Vanuatu but from you path flags I see that almost all of the nations where you've lived were English language countries.

I really think that contrary to what you say that, "not every expat needs to learn the local language" they really do because not doing so makes us very vulnerable. It makes us unable to communicate in any meaningful way with those around us  You have to depend on somebody trustworthy to look after your day-to-day living situations because they always depend on interactions with locals, unless you turn yourself into a hermit.

William James Woodward

James. You are arguing from the general to the particular. That's one of the cardinal sins in logic! Learning the local language (which would mean the local dialect, where English is the local language) depends on the proportion of expats in the community. If the proportion is large, then the necessity to learn the native language or dialect is less than if the proportion is small. You imply that you are one of a tiny minority of expats, where you live. I am one of a large majority of expats, where I live. It is a continuing stimulation to me to be able to speak in English with other expats from Jamaica and other Caribbean countries, several countries in Central and South America, several countries western and eastern Europe, Philippines and other countries in south-east Asia, India/Nepal/Pakistan. I will go so far as to say that the range of cultures that I am exposed to here is almost certainly greater than the range you are exposed to where you live. I found the same kind of thing in Nassau, Bahamas, when we lived there. My other homes as an expat (England, Canada, Spain and Vanuatu) will have to be tackled later, perhaps on some other thread.

There is validity in your point of view, but not as much as there is in mine, I think. Most natives of Cayman can speak standard English. When the less educated among them chat among themselves I can't follow them well - and when Jamaicans chat among themselves I am quickly lost. For more of my opinion on the matter, you might (or might not!) like to check out two blog-posts of mine (on my personal blog - "Barlow's Cayman") in July and August last year - titles 'English as she is spoke' and 'Unexpected places', respectively.

The most important advice you'll get as a would-be expat?

In a nutshell:

1). Narrow down your choice of destinations where the language(s) you know (well) are spoken.

2). If no good opportunity exists in countries with language(s) you know, search for opportunities in places where you believe you could learn the local language quickly.  Along with preparations to move, make it your duty to begin studying the language of the place where you will reside before you travel.
By the time you arrive, you should be able to mumble something intelligible in that language.

Preparation is the name of the game.

Any little step toward learning is better than no step at all. 

Hi Gordon,

From the very outset my comments were directed to non-English speaking countries. Any English speaker is going to face reatively few challenges or problems in another English speaking nation regardless of the dialect or accent or in a nation where English is the second official language. I've dealt with Austrailians, Brits, Barbadians, Bermudans, Indians and various others. I've never had any difficulties communicating with any of them.

What I'm saying and it is the undeniable truth is if you're going to take up long term residence in a NON-ENGLISH speaking country then absolutely nothing is a substitute for at least a basic ability to speak and understand the local language. Otherwise you isolate yourself within the English speaking expat community for one thing and become largely dependent on them. You can't communicate with any of the locals you might need to in common day-to-day situations and may even be seen by them as standoffish or worse still as arrogant and distant. You also limit your opportunities especially in the area of employment when not speaking the local language. This may not be such a big deal for somebody that's been transferred in by a big multinational, but it can be absolutely disasterous for someone who expatriates on his or her own and is hoping to find a job in a local company.

One can forget South America completely if they aren't planning on learning to speak Spanish or Portuguese (Brazil). There are two reasons for this, first most of these countries strongly resist the use of English even in the workplace and second for the strong anti-American sentiment that exists in many of those countries.

Another advantage of speaking the local language well and learning how to haggle over prices is that you're not likely to get charged the higher "gringo" prices (at least here in South America) for absolutely everything. The trend here is to see all English speakers as AMERICANS so half of the people automatically despise you and the other half assume you're rich, because they all know that money grows on trees in North America, and they're out to extract as much of that wealth from you as they possibly can. Speaking the local language also shows the local population that you respect them, their language and their culture, this is very important in many countries.

I've seen many who've come here to Brazil thinking that they can get by with English only. Without exception they've either soon awakened to the fact they can't and take crash courses in Portuguese or they've beat a hasty retreat for home.

I go as far as to say that in any country where English isn't spoken fluently by at least 10 percent or more of the population the local language is going to be indispensable.

wjwoodward wrote:

.....................  I go as far as to say that in any country where English isn't spoken fluently by at least 10 percent or more of the population the local language is going to be indispensable.

Hi James,
Your remark is correct but it misses facts.

1). You must specify the countries in the 10% group.

2). You must specify countries in the 50% / 50% group.

3) You must specify the countries in the 85% because this is where English-speaking expats must focus their efforts to look for jobs.

You simply cannot just say something without backing it up with deep research, conclusive statistics, irrefutable evidence and brilliant suggestions.

I've been thinking of re-location for the past 11 minutes, but now, without clear numbers from you I do not know where to go.    See what you did? 

I need the country lists by Monday, Feb. 17, 2014, morning.
I said "I need the country lists by Monday, Feb. 17, 2014, morning." 

Way too funny John! Thanks for making my day, my friend.

wjwoodward wrote:

Way too funny John! Thanks for making my day, my friend.

Hi James again,
You got me worried now and I do not know what to do ...
First, you say something great but then you keep the details and numbers secret.
Second, you say my humor is too funny. Humor, James, is never too funny. 

My answer to your thread is this: never forget about jokes and when abroad, learn to discern between what locals call 'humor' and what they don't.
Good laughter can and does take someone out of situations which could turn very tragic ... 

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

John C. wrote:

Always do what comes easy and natural or you will lose to those who already do that ... 

This is terrible advice.  People like to improve themselves and grow.  You don't do that by taking the lazy way out.  You do it by pushing yourself and doing what's hard and takes more effort.

1). Terrible advice?
Says who? 

2). Ooohhh, yes, people "like" to improve themselves and grow, but most of them fail at improving and are forced tp forget about growing.
If everybody improves and grows there will be no more winners. 

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

That's a terribly negative attitude.  Failure is a great way to learn about yourself.  Learning about yourself helps you grow.

I  totally agree. I would aso say that the best way to learn a foregin language is to be actually in the foreign country living with locals or in a local family with no opportunity to speak your own language...

Some of the above posts have conflated - and confused - "expat" and "immigrant". Yes, immigrants do need to learn the local language, and nobody would argue with that. Expats, however don't need to learn it because they won't be there long. James, I think you are an immigrant in Brazil, not an expat. You are there for the long haul. But if you were intending to move on after two or three years, you would be an expat. Then, you would probably mix mainly with other expats (depending on your occupation) and might not need to learn Portuguese.

Sometimes national bureaucracies fail to distinguish clearly between the two classifications. For instance: I was formally classed as an immigrant in Canada in 1965, and was issued a "Landed Immigrant" slip when I arrived. But I knew I would be moving on sometime; if I had lived in Montreal I wouldn't have bothered learning French, except minimally.

(In fact we met an eccentric young English expat in Montreal who had lived there for two years, and who refused as a matter of principle to learn any French at all except for the phrase "c'est la meme chose". He insisted it was all he needed for most circumstances. We went to a nightclub with him one night, and it was a very funny experience watching him in action. But I digress...)

Hi Gordon,

While you are correct to a certain degree that an "expat" would have a lesser degree of necessity to learn the local language than an "immigrant" that still also depends on the country they're in too.

In many countries, like all of the EU and many African countries for example if English is not the second official language it is spoken by a high percentage of the population and thus anything other than a rudimentary understanding of the local language would be necessary for someone there for the very short term. I still think that in other countries, where English is not widely spoken even "short-term expats" would benefit greatly from learning basic conversation if nothing else. I think that if you're going to be in a country for 2 years or longer then the local language is absolutely essential regardless of whether it's your intention to remain in that country permanently or not. I couldn't even imagine 2 years here in Brazil without speaking Portuguese. I came here speaking it fluently and really had no plans of staying as long as I did. I never will regret learning the language and actually have earned about ten times more in doing translations than I ever spent learning it, which was a benefit that I never expected. I've also saved a fortune over the 12+ years I've lived here by not being charged the "gringo" price for everything I buy.

Cheers,
James

From Wikipedia:

An expatriate (sometimes shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of the person's upbringing. The word comes from the Latin terms ex ("out of") and patria ("country, fatherland").
In common usage, the term is often used in the context of professionals or skilled workers sent abroad by their companies,[1] rather than for all 'immigrants' or 'migrant workers'. The differentiation found in common usage usually comes down to socio-economic factors, so skilled professionals working in another country are described as expatriates, whereas a manual labourer who has moved to another country to earn more money might be labelled an 'immigrant' or 'migrant worker'.
There is no set definition and usage varies with context, for example the same person may be seen as an "expatriate" by his home country and a "migrant worker" where he works. Retirement abroad, in contrast, usually makes one an "expatriate".

It seems different people use the word for different things. I personally use it in the sense of the first paragraph above. And even when I was in a country for a limited period, why would I want to mix mainly with other short-term foreigners, as Gordon claims? I attended a Thai language class when I worked there for just a year - but then again, out of pragmatism I shared a house with two other short-term foreigners in a similar situation, a Chinese and a Malaysian, and my best friend there was Bangladeshi.

Beppi. I think the Wikipedia entry must have been written by some unsophisticated fellow who doesn't believe that immigrants can change their loyalties. I'm here to tell you that in general they can and do. I myself feel not the slightest loyalty towards the country in which I was raised. I'm 74 years old and left Australia at the age of 23. Am I never to escape my "tribal" origins? I have nothing against Australia, but it and I have gone our separate ways. It is not my country any more. I have changed my patria, just as my 19th-Century ancestors changed theirs when they emigrated to Australia.

Not everybody will feel the same. Perhaps you don't. Or perhaps I need to take a broader view of what constitutes "upbringing"! When does one's upbringing stop? Hmmm. Perhaps it never does...

As an expat who works in different countries and deals with local people on a daily basis, I find it necessary to at least learn the basics of the language to make interaction easier.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian … _languages

beppi wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_languages

Good point, Beppi! As a fourth-generation expat in Oz, I am embarrassed to admit that I have never learnt any of the native languages - only the English of the ruling race!

Any advice on that, James? (Smile; just teasing!)

Hi Hailey,

Yes, my dear sweet child.... in my case OP does really mean old poster as you already know. For others it would of course be "original poster".

Last I heard in Oz they speak a form of the English language, I think. Just like the USA does, only much different than the King's (or Queen's) English.

xxx ooo
Jurassic Jimmy