Do you use bitcoins?

No. I've never heard of them being used in Indonesia.

mas fred wrote:

No. I've never heard of them being used in Indonesia.

Hi there,

You have a HUGE opening for you to take the lead right away and educate the naïves ...  What are you waiting for? 

I bought in Oct. @ $205, sold in Dec. 2 @ $1,110

And when you think that a couple already traveled all over the world paying with BitCoins ... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-c … 00833.html

Fred,

The logic is simple: if you don't make serious dough trading the commodity, it's OK, what to do?, but at least you can make a few bucks dealing with it (education, seminars, advertising, business) BEFORE others wake up to the rush. 

REMEMBER: please, do not lose the start in Indonesia! ... 

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

I don't even use real coins.

Hi Hailey,

You are a treasure of a wife in every man's house ...

Perhaps you will start using Bitcoins ...

----------------

(edit 'every')
Sorry, my imperfect English made me write 'every' when in fact I meant 'any'.

Thanks but no thanks.
I feel I may be an old fuddy duddy on this one but I see no advantage and lots to lose.



A massive rise in supposed value but with absolutely nothing to back it up as a currency.
No central bank, no actual value; only a perceived value, based on nothing but hope and/or greed.
I believe it will be one more fad that fades out after a while, leaving lots of fools parted from their money.

I may be doing a William Preece here, but I don't think so.

mas fred wrote:

Thanks but no thanks.
I feel I may be an old fuddy duddy on this one but I see no advantage and lots to lose.

A massive rise in supposed value but with absolutely nothing to back it up as a currency.
No central bank, no actual value; only a perceived value, based on nothing but hope and/or greed.
I believe it will be one more fad that fades out after a while, leaving lots of fools parted from their money.

I may be doing a William Preece here, but I don't think so.

Hi Fred,

Thanks for your contribution.

1). WE DO NOT WANT currency to be backed up by anything because I do not want to pay for the back-up.
We do not want more money to be printed, because I DO NOT WANT to feed the scumbags.
We do not want some guys sitting in A/C offices and then get high salaries to our detriment because they are the ones entertaining class warfare.

2). It's not hope, not greed.  It's PURE concept. If people buy, let them buy.  If they don't buy, prices will drop.  Bitcoin is based on the pure concept of supply / demand, and is for people who can afford the game.
Supply is FIXED meaning that never will the number of Bitcoins be increased, which not the case with “currencies”.

3). What is important on planet Earth is INTANGIBLES, not the tangibles.  How I laugh at those who bought houses thinking they will sell them higher but then something happened (2008 recession) and houses lost value across the board down to 50% - 60%, and many amateur property speculators (read: homeowners) were driven out of the very home they thought would make them rich.  What were they thinking?

(edited bad English: though will ???)

It always makes me have a belly laugh when the crowd turns out to be wrong. It happens slowly and then it grows bigger into a bubble.

Fred, you are a grownup.  Please observe the fools well: they come in all shapes, ages, handsomeness, and even social status.  They always mean well, but something bad always happens to them to prove them wrong.
Nothing bad (or very bad) happened to Bill Gates who followed a dream, a vision, AN INTANGIBLE.

4). Bitcoin CAN NEVER be influenced by manipulated news, by sales numbers or P/S, EPS, by good or bad news, by new CEO getting hired, by typographical errors in newspapers or by intergalactic travels.  It's pure demand from knowledgeable individuals and NOBODY can get in their way.
Fools lose money not only in Bitcom trades, also in the stock markets, in futures, FOREX and ... YES, every business they do.  Fools (alcoholics, addicts, etc.) lose at everything; they don't even have to go to the casino to gamble their money.

5) I personally wouldn't mind if the world adopts a single, universal currency.  Then you are going to see what happens and how many folks will lose their jobs.  First those from the national Mints, then the rest.

To progress, a working class man must learn because his old mentality cannot move him up again to a new step.

There are other virtual currencies already competing with Bitcoin … and one must keep up with the times, if he wants that is.

You seem to have missed the point.
Some scumbags have already got hold of the idea and are making a fortune by forcing up the price.
They'll sell before the collapse but the greedy with little idea will be stuck with useless nothing.

Nothing is worth nothing and will return to being worth nothing when the bubble bursts.
Actually, the sound of silence can be valuable, but that's an exception.

Sorry Fred,

You did not get the idea.  (OK, OK, I know, they will not fire you from that job of yours for it).

NOBODY forces prices up in Bitcoins.

Everybody forces stock prices up for TOO many reasons to write up here, central Banks force their currencies up (it not always works in their favor, Bank of Japan lost billions trying to force the YEN down, and us knowledgeable traders said NO and bought instead of shorting).

I am surprised that only you answered my post ...

Here are some articles you may want to review http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exch … 18107.htmlhttp://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/advisor/ … 18909.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/0 … lp00000592 

Trading is not for everybody, and I assure you that after YOU trade for a living (not just dabbling in mutual funds) you will not be able to get along with everybody (edit added: and ... you won't need to get along with anybody anymore, anyway.

As it stands now, you are not a trader (which is the bad news) but you can learn (which is the good news) ...

Bitcoins were created by an anonymous (and recently disappeared) Japanese guy. Bitcoins are based on a mathematical model that is getting more complicated over time (by now the system requires specialised supercomputers to be run) and which not many people really understand. The system is governed by a non-elected group of volunteers, who run (and control) the calculations and maintain the distributed database of all bitcoins in circulation and all their transactions up to now. The number of bitcoins increases as "payment" for those running the calculations (this process is called "mining").
Bitcoins are mostly used in criminal activities like drug trading and tax fraud.

I prefer to earn my money with honest work, which I can understand and control myself.

For comparison, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_MacGregor

beppi wrote:

Bitcoins were created by an anonymous (and recently disappeared) Japanese guy. Bitcoins are based on a mathematical model that is getting more complicated over time (by now the system requires specialised supercomputers to be run) and which not many people really understand. The system is governed by a non-elected group of volunteers, who run (and control) the calculations and maintain the distributed database of all bitcoins in circulation and all their transactions up to now. The number of bitcoins increases as "payment" for those running the calculations (this process is called "mining").
Bitcoins are mostly used in criminal activities like drug trading and tax fraud.

So are cars and private homes ...

I prefer to earn my money with honest work, which I can understand and control myself.

A better idea than that is to combine earnings from monthly income with profits from speculative opportunities.  If this is not possible, it is a wide crack in the monthly income theory and a first proof of its failure.
The brain cells must work, not vegetate, at all times.

One can control himself very well while speculating ...  Control, by definition, does not require only those situations which could be controlled easily.

For comparison, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_MacGregor

Tulip mania bubble is a baby trader story. It was in my first lesson.

Everybody chooses what to do in life, but if the results are poor or negative, he waives the right to complain.
And if he succeeds, he wins not only the prize, but also earns the right to brag as far and wide, and as loudly as possible ... (edit added: ... for all the losers to regret ...)

beppi wrote:

I prefer to earn my money with honest work, which I can understand and control myself.

And another thing: when EVERYBODY is nice, family loving, God-fearing, working honestly, a bubble has been created not only bound to burst, but also close to bursting.

Bitcoins = disaster.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik … z2n1BSLs63

The bitcoin crash of 2013: Don't you feel silly now?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik … z2n1CBRMqA

People who thought that bitcoins could serve as either an investment vehicle or an alternative world currency got their heads handed to them on Thursday and Friday. That's when the price of the attention-grabbing crypto-currency got crushed, falling from a quoted $1,200 per "coin" to less than $600. At this writing, it's quoted on the Mt. Gox exchange at about $830.

Thanks for the kind suggestion of using bitcoins but I must decline as I'm not stupid.

Uhm...tricky. For now, I'll have to say no. I want to see my actual money!

mas fred wrote:

Bitcoins = disaster.

The bitcoin crash of 2013: Don't you feel silly now?

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik … z2n1CBRMqA

People who thought that bitcoins could serve as either an investment vehicle or an alternative world currency got their heads handed to them on Thursday and Friday. That's when the price of the attention-grabbing crypto-currency got crushed, falling from a quoted $1,200 per "coin" to less than $600. At this writing, it's quoted on the Mt. Gox exchange at about $830.

Thanks for the kind suggestion of using bitcoins but I must decline as I'm not stupid.

=============================

Hi,

Bitcoin = disaster?  That's the amateur's opinion, right?

Me silly, for what? Prices go up, prices go down, that's what WE - the pros - want.  We need no lazy prices at all.  We need fast price moves for us to pocket fast profits.

Despite "crashes", prices are back up to $900+.  Nice!
In the meantime unemployment remains high, and street corner commentators spit opinions after opinions without actually making any money.

See a collection or VERY relevant articles.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-1 … efits.htmlhttp://www.theverge.com/2013/11/16/5111 … in-tradershttp://world.time.com/2013/11/21/univer … -payments/http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/11/17/ … -or-value/

Geez, who said you're stupid? Truth is you don't have the money to buy/sell Bitcoins, nor the knowledge to know when to buy or when to sell.
Like education, like profits.

And here is the latest Bitcoin charts, 2-minute old, showing prices are back up to $900+.

http://s20.postimg.org/7ufi3vq19/bcoin.jpg

(It is visible for the next few months).

I see no problem with crashes, with endless articles, with cheap talk: Bitcoin goes on marching undisturbed ...

Virtual currencies are here to stay.

On another note, expats are looking for jobs, forgetting that they could do something else with their time, NOT NECESSARILY trading Bitcoins.
How about FOREX?

They were 1,200, crashed to half value after one poor call but you're having a party because they rose to 75% of previous value.

Just a 25% loss - yippee.

Thanks for info

mas fred wrote:

They were 1,200, crashed to half value after one poor call but you're having a party because they rose to 75% of previous value.

Just a 25% loss - yippee.

No loss for me. I am out since Dec. 2.

Which site is best for trading Bitcoins?

flanostu wrote:

Which site is best for trading Bitcoins?

Hello Flan,

It's easy for you as an ex-banker to know ... and even easier to find. 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bitcoi … d=20926230

Basically, a made up nothing, invented by a man who no one knows of and used by gun and drug dealers.
They're highly volatile and could be worth nothing by tomorrow morning.

mas fred wrote:

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bitcoins-virtual-currency-explained-idiot/story?id=20926230

Basically, a made up nothing, invented by a man who no one knows of and used by gun and drug dealers.
They're highly volatile and could be worth nothing by tomorrow morning.

Fred, old chap,

You refuse to get it just because you have no money to play the game, nor the education for it.
And you have no money NOW because of poor decisions you made in the past.
You are YOUR own victim. Nobody has to punish you because you already did.

Guns and drug dealers know more about honesty than normal people because they are the ones breaking it everyday.
You should not worry about them at all. Please worry about the time which passed and you misused it.

Volatility in Bitcoin is EXACTLY where profits are hidden.

No, Bitcoins could not be worth nothing tomorrow, they could be $2 - $3 tomorrow and $157 next week, $21 next month and $440 the next month.
That's what we - the experts - want.
For the working class, it's a roller coaster, for us it's not the bread & butter, it's the cake.

See the chart YOU posted? That run-up is what I pray for every week (actually every weekend for next week, to be exact).

If you don't know the game,
it's you to blame,
not those who came up to fame
'cause they had their ego to tame
and they built a name
not to be with others the same.

Cheers.
I'll have a slice of dry bread for breakfast, try to find some rags without too many holes in them and walk, barefoot, to the shop as I can't afford shoes.

Oh, sorry, I have a little money left because I didn't invest in bitcoins.

Wow, good recommendation. Not really a salesman are you

flanostu wrote:

Wow, good recommendation. Not really a salesman are you

Hello Flan,

I only sell to folks I know they can buy.
I enter a trade only if I know the chances of success are greater than risks, and I already mastered the secret of what to do if risks are rearing their ugly head.

For you - as an ex-banker – it's easy to run a search on Yahoo and find something nice to bring to this thread.

As you see, Bitcoins are not in fashion here and you could be of help – as an ex-banker, that is.

mas fred wrote:

Cheers.
I'll have a slice of dry bread for breakfast, try to find some rags without too many holes in them and walk, barefoot, to the shop as I can't afford shoes.

Oh, sorry, I have a little money left because I didn't invest in bitcoins.

As you wish Sir. 

DISCLAIMER

I DO NOT ENCOURAGE BUYING/SELLING BITCOINS AND ALL THE OTHER HIGH RISK TRADABLES.

SECURITIES TRADING IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY, WHICH IS A POLITE WAY OF SAYING 'SECURITIES TRADING IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WITH NO MONEY'.

THIS THREAD IS JUST A TOPIC, A BETTER THAN AVERAGE TOPIC THAT IS.

Yes we know. But, wow you sure are a great sales person. If I didn't know any better, I would swear you are a salesman. Regardless, I would like to point out to everyone the following documents. The FBI one is declassified and available on the Internet and the other from DHS is as well.

The mere fact we are discussing this is absolutely appalling. Bitcoins are known to fund terrorism, drugs, human trafficking, international crime organizations, etc. etc. But the way YOU see it is, hey I don't care what happens behind the scenes, (children, etc.) as long as I make a quick buck and flood the forums with more nonsense.


Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Legal_issues


DHS - Bitcoins 2.2MB
http://digitaldocs.naiptel.com/dhs_bitcoins.pdf


FBI - Bitcoins 1.7MB
http://digitaldocs.naiptel.com/fbi_bitcoins.pdf

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

mas fred wrote:

Cheers.
I'll have a slice of dry bread for breakfast, try to find some rags without too many holes in them and walk, barefoot, to the shop as I can't afford shoes.

Oh, sorry, I have a little money left because I didn't invest in bitcoins.

Why are you walking?  Did you sell the goat?

Either way, you're pretty lucky to have the slice of bread.  Back in my day we could only dream about bread.  We had to eat the burned crumbs from the bottom of the toaster at the local coffee shop - and we were lucky to have it.

Rags?  We would've killed for rags.  We were lucky to find a piece of lint on the ground, and etc.

You know the 4 yorkies?

Wow, you are educated.

European Union Warns on Bitcoin

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/european- … 07180.html

OMG, how they are afraid to lose power over people: money printing.
Panic entered the marrow of their bones ...

Trading bitcoins increases

First up, WPCS International (WPCS) whose stock jumped 20% in after-hours trading yesterday. The surge came after the tech company announced its BTX Trader unit would be releasing a software platform to trade Bitcoins. The digital currency last traded above $800 according to Bitcoin exchange, Mt.Gox. For the year, WPCS is down nearly 50%.


Why Bitcoin Inventor 'Satoshi Nakamoto' Is The Most Impressive Person Of 2013

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-named … 00404.html

Satoshi chose to remain anonymous because he knew all too well what a can of worms he opened.
One way I think he will come out of the closet is if somebody claims on TV he is the inventor unjustly.
That is supposed to drive "Satoshi" mad and reveal himself.
To be nominated the 2013 Most Impressive Person is his best mark so far. 

Bitcoin trading is for those who don't care about losing their shirt and idiots.
The price goes up and down faster than a bog seat after a rugby club's beer and curry evening.

Apart from that, it was invented by a man who refuses to identify himself but stands to make a massive profit, has no actual value, just perceived value based on the whim of internet geeks and is traded by drug dealers, gun merchants and dodgy on line trading houses.

Take a gander at this one.

http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

Oh, you can't because this professional outfit have exceeded their bandwidth.

A fad, a joke and, most likely, a con designed by a man, probably sitting on a large pile of fool's cash.

Other than that, I love bitcoins.

mas fred wrote:

Bitcoin trading is for those who don't care about losing their shirt and idiots.
The price goes up and down faster than a bog seat after a rugby club's beer and curry evening.

Apart from that, it was invented by a man who refuses to identify himself but stands to make a massive profit, has no actual value, just perceived value based on the whim of internet geeks and is traded by drug dealers, gun merchants and dodgy on line trading houses.

Take a gander at this one.

http://blockchain.info/charts/market-price

Oh, you can't because this professional outfit have exceeded their bandwidth.

A fad, a joke and, most likely, a con designed by a man, probably sitting on a large pile of fool's cash.

Other than that, I love bitcoins.

Hi Fred, 
Thank you for keeping the dialogue alive.

1). How do you know he makes a pile of cash?  And if he does, he would be making a pile of cash anyway even if he revealed his identity, don't you think so?

2). A fad, a joke?  Yes, there are many fads and many, many jokes, but only value lasts through time.
They said the same thing about Jesus when out of the blue He came up with 10 Commandments and He lasted for 2,000 years so far while all the naysayers, clowns and non-believers for the past 2,000 years are gone where?

I REPEAT:
I DO NOT ADVERTISE ON BEHALF OF BITCOINS HERE OR ELSEWHERE.
I HAVE NO REASON TO 'PUMP & DUMP'.  I ALREADY SOLD AWHILE BACK AND MADE US$1M+ IN SIX WEEKS.
NEVER THROUGHOUT THE PERIOD OF THIS THREAD DID I HAVE AN OPEN POSITION IN BITCOINS.
THIS IS JUST A DISCUSSION WHERE EVERYBODY IS FREE TO SAY WHAT HE WANTS OR KEEP QUIET.
FURTHERMORE, I STAND TO GAIN NO MONEY OR PRESTIGE FROM ADMIRING AND DISCUSSING A TOPIC WHICH IS A BIT DIFFERENT THAN MOST.

3). Other than that, do you love Bitcoins? Hhhmmm, I smell a rat here. I believe you are the inventor of Bitcoins and you are playing us and the world with your secrets ... 

hyukjin7 wrote:

Uhm...tricky. For now, I'll have to say no. I want to see my actual money!

Hello Hyuk,
Here is a link to an article which answers the 'I want to see my actual money' myth.
The article is written by an authority, someone who manages money (read: creates value).
Keep in mind: working WITH money is uplifting; working FOR money is demeaning.
People do not own money because the money belongs to the national mints, it can be devaluated, it suffers with inflation, it gets little interest in the bank, etc.
There has never been an announcement in any media when more dollar bills is printed.

http://blogs.marketwatch.com/cody/2013/ … t-misteps/

Let's see what year 2014 brings to the world of virtual currencies.  There are more bitcoin-like virtual currencies already in operation worldwide.

We are witnessing history in progress. 

HaileyinHongKong wrote:

I don't even use real coins.

Hailey, 
They are installing ATMs in Hong Kong specially for bitcoins.

Asia's First Bitcoin ATM: How Does It Work?
http://live.wsj.com/video/asias-first-b … C21C73603C

Hurry up! 

Bitcoin and the Fictions of Money
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/2 … -of-money/

We go more and more cerebral ... 

John C. wrote:

We do not want more money to be printed, because I DO NOT WANT to feed the scumbags.
We do not want some guys sitting in A/C offices and then get high salaries to our detriment because they are the ones entertaining class warfare.

2). It's not hope, not greed.  It's PURE concept.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25919482

The Department of Justice said Robert Faiella, known as BTCKing, and Charlie Shrem from BitInstant.com have both been charged with money laundering.

The authorities said the pair were engaged in a scheme to sell more than $1m (£603,000) in bitcoins to users of online drug marketplace the Silk Road.

Bit late, dude.

mas fred wrote:

John C. wrote:

We do not want more money to be printed, because I DO NOT WANT to feed the scumbags.
We do not want some guys sitting in A/C offices and then get high salaries to our detriment because they are the ones entertaining class warfare.

2). It's not hope, not greed.  It's PURE concept.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25919482

The Department of Justice said Robert Faiella, known as BTCKing, and Charlie Shrem from BitInstant.com have both been charged with money laundering.

The authorities said the pair were engaged in a scheme to sell more than $1m (£603,000) in bitcoins to users of online drug marketplace the Silk Road.

Bit late, dude.

===================================

Silk road is old news, and the trial of the two criminals is also old.
Has nothing to do with Bitcoins, and it has all to do with idiocy.

Two Bitcoin exchange operators charged in money laundering scheme
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/two-bitco … nance.html

Why do folks abuse something new which was supposed to solve some old, unanswered problems?
If I had the chance to be in the initial BitCoin start-up business, I would never have got myself involved with Silk Road to begin with.  Why side with the idiots?  How long did they think they could operate on the wrong side of the law before getting caught red-handed?

Ingenuity + honesty = long-term success.