American wanting to move to Estonia

We have two young girls, Mom is Estonian, I'm American.  It's one of the best decisions we ever made, and it was kind of by accident. Tartu is lovely and that is where we live, incredible schools, would be happy to email names, Tallinn is nice but we prefer Tartu.  Food is healthier, schools are incredible, people are nice, next to no crime, I mean the town square is like "Whoville" at Christmas....All and all, even though it requires me to be gone quite a bit since my business is mainly in the US....I would not change it, mainly for the kids sake.  America is crumbling, crime is terrible, I am based in Chicago and since I have been back we have had a mass shooting it seems in this country each week...Here in Chicago it's OUT OF CONTROL....So good luck with your move, Estonians can seem standoffish at first but once they know you they are the kindest and loyal people you will meet....Kids can come across as emotionless at times, it can be scary when your used to Gregarious American kids...but this I believe comes from the parents who often act the same way.   I think it goes back to the Soviet times....Anyway, good luck with your adventure and keep asking questions...if you're there already then Tere Tulemast....K

I wish I were already there! I'm sure when you come back to the US, you see how bad the economy is. Just north of chicago in Michigan, its even worse which means I'm out of work. It royally sucks, but the more and more I research and look into Estonia, the more I can't wait to move! Thank you SO much for your response. Just one more question, did you have the kids before your move? Id like to know how they adjusted, if so.

Hi There....I am actually in Chicago right now, very brutal here economy wise. 

Yes both our girls (6) Alexandra and Katie (3) were born in the US and Katie moved when she was about 11/2 and Alex when she was like 5.   They have adjusted very easily and are getting a fantastic education...KK

You have put every bit of my worried at ease. Thank you SO much! How easy was it for you to adjust? Have you taken to learning Estonian yet or are your friends pretty understanding about it?

Q: How difficult and expensive is it to get the required visas/permits to live and work in Estonia?
A: It can be difficult depending on your circumstance. This is a very broad question, but this website should answer most if not all of your questions. If there is anything specific, feel free to send me a PM
http://www.politsei.ee/en/teenused/residence-permit/
**if I were you, the simplest and most effective way to get into Estonia, without marriage or having a job lined up, is to apply to go to University in one of the english language taught programs. If you go this route, at least you can possibly further your education and at the same time find a free spot in a 4 year bachelor program.

Q:And idea we had was me teaching English from home for a while until I can find something legitimate. Any experiences with that?
A: You can very easily get a job teaching English at a local private language school. There are a number of them in various areas. Teaching English from home, I don't know. Keep in mind you have only 90 days you can stay here visa free before you need to obtain a residence permit to stay longer.

Q:I have an Associate's Degree in Human Services. Will that come in handy? Are there any jobs like that there (social work, personal care working, working in a long term care facility for both mentally unstable and elderly, etc.)?
A: An Associates degree doesn't exist in Estonia, unless it is for a special trade (ie: welding, carpentry, machinist, etc) It won't likely be recognized. But, if you want a better chance at having your associates degree recognized internationally as a form of education, you need to A: get it notarized, and then B: get it apostilled at the state level department of state (ie: Michigan Dept. of State)

Q: How old are your children and how easy was it for them to get used to things? How long did it take for them to learn?
A: I live with my girlfriend who have 6 and 8 year old girls. They are not my kids, but their dad is an American guy like me. THey were born in Estonia, but speak English and Estonian fluently.

Q:How long did it take YOU to get used to the culture difference and the currency change?
A: I came here as an exchange student in 2009, but moved back in 2011. It does take some time, but not very long at all. Less than 4 months. Currency is a no brainer after the first couple weeks, culture starts off with a honeymoon phase, then becomes a separation phase, then a renewing of vows stage, and then a multi-cultural associative existence. When you live here awhile, it becomes a part of you.

Q:Is there less of a worry about sending your kids out to play (I'm ALWAYS worried that he might get taken or something here, even though I have a very good parental network in the neighborhood)?
A: In Tartu, I have very little qualms about sending them to play. I'm not worried about the people in the town as much as I would be worried about the traffic if they are crossing the street.

Q:What have your kids said about the school differences? What have you noticed?
A: My "kids" ask me what school is like back in the states.

Q:How long did it take to get approved to move? How expensive was it?
A: Most homes are furnished, and if renting, expect 1st month, deposit, etc. upfront. (600-1000 Euros), 3 month supply of food (before getting a job)... ~600-800max. Applications fees for residence permit (300 Euros) and miscellaneous costs (500-1000) With a kid, calculate with max, and double residence permit fee. That should give you a ballpark. The approval process is somewhere around 2 weeks if you meet all criteria. The day you submit application to migration, they give you an automatic additional 2 months.

Hope that helps!
-Chris

There are so many questions falling through my head. I'm sure that I've forgotten some, but for now, i think those will help A LOT.

Nägemist!

Thanks, Chris. The last question, I was talking more about shipping things over and plane tickets, etc. lol

For shipping, try a company called MEEST, very competitive...I will say as someone who ships a lot all the time, it's expensive as hell, Post office is notorious for stealing so don't be shocked.  Always list personal items as zero value or expect a big tax bill.   In my opinion it's one of the worst aspects of living abroad and having feet in two countries...the shipping of things is expensive, time consuming and often frustrating.

Okay, so meest has the best pricing for it? And I should make a detailed list of all that I want to ship and bring it with me on the plane? lol

Honestly.  The truth is that you can ship via cargo, if you want to pay, for one cargo door to door probably 5-6k dollars and that is a very rough estimate and only if you live near the Eastern seaboard..It's frankly not worth it.  Meest is good for packages up to 20 lbs, to Estonia.   Clothes (kids clothes) and stuff are far more expensive in Estonia...I mean like crazy expensive as compared to here, electronics even worse, so my answer is this.  sell or store your things here, send the most important things and then gradually buy things you want there.

The things that I wanted to bring are my necessities. Clothes for me and my son, maybe my PC, my cat (I've already looked up how to do that), and other things like this. It would probably be just 60 lbs worth, if that.

Not sure on the ramifications of a cat but the rest you will be fine with.

Lol the cat would be cargo on the plane with me

I don't know about the teaching scene in Tartu but finding a decent teaching job in Tallinn language schools is difficult at best. There is a lot of competition for the few positions available to native speakers and a lot of it is very qualified. In addition, any legitimate place won't hire you until you have your legal work permission, which can take months to get (see other threads). I agree that crime is much lower here and it is generally quite safe for children compared to the States, but Tartu is known among the locals as the racist and fight capital of Estonia (though Parnu is good competition fight-wise in the summer). I agree about the schools. In general, the education here is far superior to what one can get in the average American school.

There is a good bit of competition, but there are several other positions available for native English speakers, such as working as a editor for a translation company. You would be responsible for proofreading trnaslations of translators before they are turned over to customers. This is certainly an option to look into.

I have to disagree about the opinions of Tartu. Tartu has an old "racism card" that has been played against it in the past. This primarily revolves around skinheads who frequent the local bars Pool Kuus, and Krooks at 2am in the middle of the night. Anywhere in Estonia if you are of a different skin-tone, you maybe subject to some level of racism, but the majority of people just react due to the inconsistency of seeing people from different countries. Tartu has 300 exchange students a year from several countries, so you'll see a lot more multiculturalism in Tartu than anywhere else, due to the city's size and university environment. I have lived in Tartu for 3 years and do not agree with these interpretations.

Tartu is a great place to have a family, and I believe it is more family-friendly than Tallinn under any circumstance. My girlfriend is raising 2 half-american kids. They are not mine, but I live with her and them. They don't suffer from any inhospitable nature among people in this town, and I will say this. They never have.

Thank you for your nice comment. I agree.
With regards.
Dittmar

Thank you for the comments. I'm used to hearing stuff about "race" here in the states as my skin tone is darker because of my Native American heritage. I do believe that Tartu is our number one choice for when I FINALLY have the money to move. I'm still in the beginning stages. I have to get the money together to get my passport and my son's passport, then we have to file the visa paperwork, etc. I still have every hope that I will be able to get my son to Estonia and FINALLY not have to worry about sending him across the street to play.

And about the proofreader job, that would probably be my ideal as I'm already what we call a "grammar nazi." lol

Hi there, I think you must not have a concern.
I live in Tartu and all are relaxed here. Tartu is a very nice city but not so much workplaces like in Tallinn.
I lived on US soil too. I lived in oceanside, westcost.
I came over US to Germany to Estonia.
We can keep in touch or you can call me over skype for more info.
My skype address ::    dittmar.roesener
or mail me dittmarroesener(at)gmail.com.
with regards
dittmar and family

Feel free to PM me to exchange e-mail if you have any additional questions.

I can help you with residency issues, and local stuff. There is quite a network of people here in Tartu that can give some assistance if needed.

All the best,
Chris

Hello Chris,
thank you very much for your nice letter. I live with my family in Tartu. We want stay in Tartu. I am loking for a job in or around Tartu. I send you my profession. I must not stick with my profession if there is an other good possibility.
https://www.expat.com/en/jobs/europe/es … t-for.html

With best regads.. and if I could do something for your network please not hesitate to contact me....
Dittmar

Question for those of you there...A wesbite called nationmaster has statistical rankings for different countries and I was very surprised to see this:

1     Turkey     184.05 per 1 million people     2006    
2     Belarus     100.35 per 1 million people     2006    
3     Lithuania     81.84 per 1 million people     2006    
4     Albania     80.64 per 1 million people     2006    
5     Estonia     79.04 per 1 million people     2006    
6     Ukraine     47.84 per 1 million people     2006    
7     Turkmenistan     45.34 per 1 million people     2006    
8     Latvia     44.17 per 1 million people     2006    
9     Croatia     42.59 per 1 million people     2006    
10     Romania     39.23 per 1 million people     2006    

Listing Estonia as having the 5th highest murder rate in the world.  Now granted, a large country like the United States has a large amount of variation in it - there are inner city neighborhoods in our large cities like LA, Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, and even our nation's capital DC that are more dangerous than Kabul and if you walk in you are almost guaranteed not to walk back out.  There are also places here in the midwest, Texas, and the south where we are armed to the teeth, don't lock our doors and if you walk in here as a criminal intent on violent activity you are the one who probably won't walk out.

But in a small country like Estonia I'm a but surprised to see this.  Also the numbers are at this point 8 years old.

Any thoughts?

I bit thing is that the info is 8 years old indeed, watching.

The results on here I find rather skewed - Yes, the data is old, but you still can't argue data.

Estonia is the 46th smallest out of 188 countries world wide by population. It is ranked 5th smallest of countries with over a million people, most of which are islands, and city states before it in the full list.

If 79 per 1 million people were murdered in 2006, that that would basically mean that 79+ a few other people in the entire country were murdered in 2006.

If you narrowed down to where the murders occurred it would make more sense. Because I think the murders would have taken place in Tallinn.
But then again, I could be wrong.

The current homicide rate is 5.2/100,000 in Estonia racking up a grand total of 70 for 2012 in the entire country, in terms of homicide rate it is 99th in the world. If you compare that to the USA, it is 4.8/100,000 racking up a grand total of 14,173, and it's homicide rate is ranked 102nd.

In terms of rate, it is higher, in terms of total kill count- well, that is self-explanatory. Does it mean Estonia is a more dangerous place to live? No.

This list of 10 countries, seems to highlight Eurasian countries. It seems to me that in relative terms, you have apples and oranges. And the data can be presented to look worse than it really is.

The worst country in terms of homicide rate is Honduras - with a homicide rate of 91/100,000 people. Ranking at number 1, and the best with a 0 homicide rate is Monaco (a city-state) and Palau (an island).

So you can see how it can look odd.