The unofficial web page of the greater Cuenca expat community

mugtech wrote:

I am not worried about any of that, just saying the people should do what they want when they want and not be made to feel that their expat life is inferior to others.  The smart ones just ignore the "experts".

Exactly!  It was more that I wonder why anyone cares so much about this...

No matter where you go, it's clear that one of the aspects of culture that is most important is food. Indeed, one of the best ways to truly experience local culture when you travel is to try the food. Food is a huge deal when it comes to culture. Nearly every culture has its own food, and its own customs associated with eating food.

---http://liverichlivewell.com/

Living up to quote, I ventured into downtown Cuenca yesterday to partake in some of the gringo subculture and have breakfast at Domesan. This breakfast was $6, on sales from $6.75.  It was a bacon omelete.  A little more expensive than I like to spend for breakfast but they gave free refills on the coffee which needs to be taken into account when sizing up the value of your meal.

I think the brain trust of Cuenca´s expat community (Mugs, Quito and me) is onto something.

The key to being an expat and living abroad long-term is building a micro environment that reflects the culture from which you came.  This micro environment may be as small as your home if you live in Loja where there are few expats or more comprehensive if you live in Cuenca. You sometimes have to temporarily exit out of that micro environment and navigate the waters.

You won´t find that talking point on any of our buddy Said´s Powerpoint presentations at the Ultimate Overseas Conference in Cost Rica because it dampens the enthusiasm for newbies. Plus the presenters acutally believe that they have adapted to the culture they live in.

From another thread, I think this is a pretty perspicacious assessment of us in the Cuenca expat community.  I definitely want to be top dog in Cuenca, and like all expats in Ecuador, I have created a micro-environment that reflects the culture of my home country.  Not sure what that reference to local government is about, however.  I think local government should always be changed for the better, whether propelled by locals or foreigners.

I don't mean to be judgmental, but in my humble opinion, the expat community in Cuenca has grown extremely large extremely quickly, and in some ways it seems to me that some of the people may be flexing just a bit to be top dog.  They also seem to want to recreate what they left.  A lot of them also seem to think the local government is supposed to be there & do for them, as opposed to them just trying to fit into this land they've chosen to come to and who has their own way of doing things and have done it that way for some time now, successfully, without input and/or correction from others.

Just fininshed reading this book. I thought it was a really good book and presented an objective examination of the facts of the case, instead of the usual shrill and unhinged hysteria that Huffington Post was posting and CuencaHighlife (the prior version) was reposting and defending as being objective.

   Here is an excerpt from the "conclusion" chapter.

Many observers describe the Oriente pollution case as a conflict between the giant American oil producer (evil or abused, depending on one's perspective) and the plaintiffs (innocent or manipulative). In fact, the dispute is more complicated. The country of Ecuador and its government-owned oil company bear heavy responsibility for what transpired in the jungle.

In the 1960s, Ecuador invited Texaco to explore and invest. The company did not sneak into the Oriente. In the 1970s and 1980s, the Quito government and various Ecuadorian business interests collected most of the revenue from Oriente oil—all according to contract. In the 1990s, Petroecuador formally accepted the duty of cleaning up two-thirds of the former Texaco well sites. Rather than protect the poor people who lived near its operations, the state-owned oil company emulated Texaco's worst tendencies. The populist Rafael Correa, easily reelected president in 2013, continued to rail against American corporations but failed to use his nation's still-flowing oil proceeds to clean up the rain forest. Petroecuador's belated promises of remediation rang false, as illustrated by the continuing contamination in Shushufindi.

Safely ensconced for a third term, Correa has encouraged new producers—Andes Petroleum and PetroOriental—to expand their activities in oil fields overlapping with and adjacent to those of the former Texaco concession. Andes Petroleum and PetroOriental employ Ecuadorian engineers and laborers, but they are wholly owned by China National Petroleum Corporation and China Petrochemical Corporation, also known as SINOPEC. Ecuadorians are watching the gauges at the Lago Agrio Storage and Transfer Station in Sucumbíos and doing seismic mapping and test drilling in Orellana and Pastaza Provinces. But the neatly dressed executives who occasionally arrive by helicopter are Chinese. In early 2013, the Correa government dispatched representatives to Beijing in hopes of convincing the Chinese to bid on vast, still-untouched parts of the Amazon farther to the south. The Ecuadorian delegation met SINOPEC representatives in a Hilton hotel in the Chinese capital to pitch million-acre contracts. Correa's solicitude toward the Chinese doesn't stem from cultural sympathy or long-standing strategic ties. The Chinese are scouring Latin America and Africa for natural resources to feed a voracious domestic economy. They have tremendous influence in Ecuador, and an inside track in the bidding on unexplored jungle oil fields, because the Correa government owes China more than $11 billion from past loans. Ecuador has no way to pay those debts anytime soon.

Indigenous groups have protested Correa's expansion of foreign oil development. “They have not consulted us, and we're here to tell the big investors that they don't have our permission to exploit our land,” Narcisa Mashienta of the Shuar tribe told reporters in 2013. Correa's oil minister, Andrés Donso Fabara, dismissed such objections as naïve and self-interested. He accused the rural protesters of pursuing “a political agenda,” as if that were somehow improper. The tribes, he said, “are not thinking about development or about fighting against poverty.”

The dynamics of the oil debate in Ecuador thus remain depressingly consistent, with nominally populist Quito politicians as condescending toward the rural populace as any military junta official or U.S. oil executive ever was. Unlike American energy companies, however, SINOPEC is not in danger of facing environmental lawsuits filed by lawyers in Beijing. The Communist government will see to that.
Petroecuador, meanwhile, has continued to demonstrate that ecological standards in the Oriente remain dismal. In June 2013, the state-owned producer acknowledged that a major pipeline break had caused a spill of some ten thousand barrels of crude. A portion of the oil flowed into the Napo River. Officials in Quito were forced to inform authorities in Peru that escaped crude could make its way across the Ecuadorian border via the Amazon's intricate network of waterways.

The more things change the more things stay the same

Thanks, Nards -- I very much want to read that book.

(I understand that Correa is very upset that some big star has optioned it for a movie).

Nards Barley wrote:

... I definitely want to be top dog in Cuenca,

Be careful what you wish fot.  Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown...palace coups...peasant revolts...that sort of thing

Great quote Nards, I'll be reading that book next.

That is the entrance is to a restaurant called El Meson Español right near the corner of Benigno Malo and Juan Jaramillo.   Upstairs is a hotel called la Posada apparently.

I don´t think many Gringos have been exposed to Spanish cuisine in the United States, so it is unlikely that many gringos have risked going inside. So in an apparent stroke of genius, the owners decided to offer a product for sale to attract gringos like me.

Here is the sign they used on the inside doorway:



Here is the inside decor:



While the pancakes are $1.75, with coffee it will run you $2.50. 



That blob of whipped butter was positioned on top of the pancakes but as it melted it slipped to the side of the plate.

A tweet a couple days ago from Roberta S. Jackson, Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roberta Jacobson

Llamado al gob. de #Ecuador para que respete la libertad de expresión y la #libertaddeprensa como derechos democráticos fundamentales

A call to the government of Ecuador that they respect freedom of expression and the freedom of the press as fundamental democratic rights.

Of course, the Ecuadorian government claims the U.S. has no moral authority to judge Ecuador.

The process of civilizing and modernizing Cuenca continues.





That said, I did hear of a recent setback.  Burger King in the Mall de Monay closed down permanently for some unknown reason.

This should help boast the hits on your page...

The "we hate the United States" 24 hour news network RT is coming to Ecuador according to multiple news sources including El Tiempo.

I liked this final sentence el El Tiempo article:

Junto a Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia y Nicaragua, Ecuador es el principal aliado del Kremlin en América Latina.

Translation:
Together with Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia and Nicaragua, Ecuador is the principal ally of the Kremlin in Latin America.

Nards Barley wrote:

[img align=c]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQF5pmpSzjJWmqcnGkts3t4pMjoNutXozOjpaLRlxOey6iEGAX7kHOM5QEZ[/url]
The "we hate the United States" 24 hour news network RT is coming to Ecuador according to multiple news sources including El Tiempo.

I liked this final sentence el El Tiempo article:

Junto a Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia y Nicaragua, Ecuador es el principal aliado del Kremlin en América Latina.

Translation:
Together with Argentina, Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia and Nicaragua, Ecuador is the principal ally of the Kremlin in Latin America.

What does RT stand for?  Real Trash?

Russia Today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

BobH wrote:

Russia Today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

Same difference

Nards Barley wrote:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5 … 3,200_.jpg

Just fininshed reading this book. I thought it was a really good book and presented an objective examination of the facts of the case, instead of the usual shrill and unhinged hysteria that Huffington Post was posting and CuencaHighlife (the prior version) was reposting and defending as being objective.

   Here is an excerpt from the "conclusion" chapter.

Many observers describe the Oriente pollution case as a conflict between the giant American oil producer (evil or abused, depending on one's perspective) and the plaintiffs (innocent or manipulative). In fact, the dispute is more complicated. The country of Ecuador and its government-owned oil company bear heavy responsibility for what transpired in the jungle.

In the 1960s, Ecuador invited Texaco to explore and invest. The company did not sneak into the Oriente. In the 1970s and 1980s, the Quito government and various Ecuadorian business interests collected most of the revenue from Oriente oil—all according to contract. In the 1990s, Petroecuador formally accepted the duty of cleaning up two-thirds of the former Texaco well sites. Rather than protect the poor people who lived near its operations, the state-owned oil company emulated Texaco's worst tendencies. The populist Rafael Correa, easily reelected president in 2013, continued to rail against American corporations but failed to use his nation's still-flowing oil proceeds to clean up the rain forest. Petroecuador's belated promises of remediation rang false, as illustrated by the continuing contamination in Shushufindi.

Safely ensconced for a third term, Correa has encouraged new producers—Andes Petroleum and PetroOriental—to expand their activities in oil fields overlapping with and adjacent to those of the former Texaco concession. Andes Petroleum and PetroOriental employ Ecuadorian engineers and laborers, but they are wholly owned by China National Petroleum Corporation and China Petrochemical Corporation, also known as SINOPEC. Ecuadorians are watching the gauges at the Lago Agrio Storage and Transfer Station in Sucumbíos and doing seismic mapping and test drilling in Orellana and Pastaza Provinces. But the neatly dressed executives who occasionally arrive by helicopter are Chinese. In early 2013, the Correa government dispatched representatives to Beijing in hopes of convincing the Chinese to bid on vast, still-untouched parts of the Amazon farther to the south. The Ecuadorian delegation met SINOPEC representatives in a Hilton hotel in the Chinese capital to pitch million-acre contracts. Correa's solicitude toward the Chinese doesn't stem from cultural sympathy or long-standing strategic ties. The Chinese are scouring Latin America and Africa for natural resources to feed a voracious domestic economy. They have tremendous influence in Ecuador, and an inside track in the bidding on unexplored jungle oil fields, because the Correa government owes China more than $11 billion from past loans. Ecuador has no way to pay those debts anytime soon.

Indigenous groups have protested Correa's expansion of foreign oil development. “They have not consulted us, and we're here to tell the big investors that they don't have our permission to exploit our land,” Narcisa Mashienta of the Shuar tribe told reporters in 2013. Correa's oil minister, Andrés Donso Fabara, dismissed such objections as naïve and self-interested. He accused the rural protesters of pursuing “a political agenda,” as if that were somehow improper. The tribes, he said, “are not thinking about development or about fighting against poverty.”

The dynamics of the oil debate in Ecuador thus remain depressingly consistent, with nominally populist Quito politicians as condescending toward the rural populace as any military junta official or U.S. oil executive ever was. Unlike American energy companies, however, SINOPEC is not in danger of facing environmental lawsuits filed by lawyers in Beijing. The Communist government will see to that.
Petroecuador, meanwhile, has continued to demonstrate that ecological standards in the Oriente remain dismal. In June 2013, the state-owned producer acknowledged that a major pipeline break had caused a spill of some ten thousand barrels of crude. A portion of the oil flowed into the Napo River. Officials in Quito were forced to inform authorities in Peru that escaped crude could make its way across the Ecuadorian border via the Amazon's intricate network of waterways.

Just finished the book, I would think anyone with any interest in Ecuador would want to read the story, presented as the conclusion above suggests.  There are certain celebrities involved, and am sorry to tell you, Bob, Sharon Stone is not one of them.  You will have to settle for Bianca J., Sting and the model Mrs Sting.  Four of the six judges who presided in the case in Ecuador were relieved of their positions for accepting bribes, kickbacks and other unethical behavior, but not in the Texaco case.  The differences in USA and Ecuador court systems are very entertaining.

mugtech wrote:

BobH wrote:

Russia Today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

Same difference

LOL -- I really teed that one up for you, didn't I?

BobH wrote:

mugtech wrote:

BobH wrote:

Russia Today
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)

Same difference

LOL -- I really teed that one up for you, didn't I?

Thank you
Thank you very much

I call firsts for identifying where the Domino's pizza will be. It is across the street from the gas station on Solano ave. I wonder if there will be seating inside.....................

I stopped in at Magnolia Cafetoday to have a capuchino.and noted a large group of gringos congregating.   It was a writers club meeting called Writing Our World.  I spotted the following ad from Gringo Post after I got home.

First meeting of Writing Our World
The new writing support group, Writing Our World, will have their first meeting this Wednesday, March 4th, at 1 PM. The meeting will be held at Magnolia Caffe restaurant. Av Paseo November 3, Otorongo 1-48 in Otorongo Plaza, Cuenca, Ecuador.

For more information and a map to Magnolia Caffe, please visit wowincuenca.com or email [email protected].

DB McNicol

This writer's club is an example of the vibrant Gringo subculture that has formed in Cuenca by gringos looking to construct a micro-environment that reflects home.

I heard one of them saving that they are publishing a magazine called Cuenca Expats in July.

Here is a photo of building where Magnolia Cafe is located.

Edd said that a sushi chain opened its first place in Cuenca recently, their 14th in Ecuador.
Edd gave it a great review for food and service.
Edd also brags about the great deals he gets using coupons at Mikey Ds
Just to give you some perspective.

mugtech wrote:

Edd said that a sushi chain opened its first place in Cuenca recently, their 14th in Ecuador.
Edd gave it a great review for food and service.
Edd also brags about the great deals he gets using coupons at Mikey Ds
Just to give you some perspective.

I am concerned about the amount of time Said spends outside of Ecuador. I am not sure he can effectively represent the interests of the Cuenca expat community.while being here only half the year.

Nards Barley wrote:

mugtech wrote:

Edd said that a sushi chain opened its first place in Cuenca recently, their 14th in Ecuador.
Edd gave it a great review for food and service.
Edd also brags about the great deals he gets using coupons at Mikey Ds
Just to give you some perspective.

I am concerned about the amount of time Said spends outside of Ecuador. I am not sure he can effectively represent the interests of the Cuenca expat community.while being here only half the year.

It does seem that there are more people on here that are pointing towards getting out of North America for the winter rather than moving full time.  Nice life if you can afford it.  After reading about the cruise they took plus the time they spent in Chile and Buenos Aires, I would have to conclude that Edd Said is not your typical economic refugee.

For the newbies, I thought I would post something as a reminder from the Ecuadorian Constitution.

Capítulo quinto
Derechos de participación
Art. 63.- Las ecuatorianas y ecuatorianos en el exterior tienen derecho a elegir a la Presidenta o Presidente y a la Vicepresidenta o Vicepresidente de la República, representantes nacionales y de la circunscripción del exterior; y podrán ser elegidos para cualquier cargo. Las personas extranjeras residentes en el Ecuador tienen derecho al voto siempre que hayan residido legalmente en el país al menos cinco años.

That last line says foreign residents in Ecuador have the right to vote when they have resided legally in the country for at least 5 years.

Now, I know ignorant gringos including owners of a popular gringo cafe that unknowingly broke the law and voted in the past elections, despite not having resided here 5 years.. Don't be one of those dumbasses.

I found this little bit from domenick buonamic's recent newsletter  interesting. I take it to mean Dom is in the process of applying for Ecuadorian Citizenship. I would link to his website, but I find that pop-up window asking for your email address annoying as hell.

Did you know after 3 years of residency in Ecuador you can apply for an Ecuador passport and dual citizenship?
But like in most countries, you will have to pass a simple test based off Ecuador's history, culture and geography... 
But don't worry it's now made easier than ever! 
Everything dumbed-down and simplified!  Just what you need to know.
Learn from the direct notes of one person that has actually passed the test and from another who is a true expert on the subject who has helped foreigners pass the exam for over 20 years! 
Also, one section of the guide is about EXACTLY what to expect during the exam, no more surprises! 
Study up, pass the test, get second passport.  Just like when you were back in college.

The Cuenca expat community was in a state of shock today when it was announced on Gringo Post that McDonalds had stopped providing wifi to its customers.

There was an interesting comment left by someone, followed up by an even more interesting reply that ties in to the thesis raised by the brain trust about whether gringo expats ever really adapt to the culture of their new countries.

I wonder if anyone thought of doing a sociological study by posting on gringopost? It is very informative of the gringo community. If a goose wanted to start a gaggle it could post here. Actually mine was a devious agenda: to see if anyone with better knowledge of Spanish would raise hell for me. And I am culturally European from East Africa and the Middle East. I have no illusions of spreading an American culture anywhere. However I am also proud to be a naturalized US citizen while keeping my European one. Now I have the benefit to check many other coffee shops before I continue my travels to elsewhere. And I wonder if those who put down nostalgia in favour of assimilation realize that they are doing just that by hanging about gringopost? Thanks for the many choices you sent. By the way I counted at least 12 Starbucks in Lima.

Reply:
If I follow you, basically you are saying there are many hypocrites on these forums who decry the presence of american companies like Starbucks or McDonalds, but who spend an inordinate amount of time on or at forums. websites or restaurants dedicated to gringo culture and lifestyle.

It does remind me of the folks who came on here looking to talk to people who are off the grid.
It would appear that one who spends a lot of time checking out what other expats be doing is not trying to become part of the native culture.  Guess some miss that concept.

An article from CuencaHighlife obviously inspired by the brain trust's recent thesis,

I am wondering if trying to control the amount of time I spend on the Internet in direct or indirect contact with home, with Ireland, has become necessary. I am worried that as it gets easier to connect with ‘back home' I am both mentally and physically spending less time where I live, in Tenerife, Spain. Is the internet a danger to integration?

Name the only American fast food chain that is located in El Centro(downtown)?




Yep, Subway.  Now, name which American fast food chain has the most locations in Cuena?

I am not entirely sure on this, since there are two malls in Cuenca that I don't spend much time in, but I think Subway and Kentucky Fried Chicken are tied with at least four.  Unlike Subway, I think all of the Kentucky Fried Chickens are part inside a mall.

To me the question is, with my perceived level of integration, am I happy here.  If I am, then carry on. At this stage of my life, there is no one's expectations I have to meet.

quito0819 wrote:

To me the question is, with my perceived level of integration, am I happy here.  If I am, then carry on. At this stage of my life, there is no one's expectations I have to meet.

Ah yes, the good life.
To thine own self be true.
The rest is insignificant details.

Before arriving to Ecuador I have never seen anyone using Coconut Oil.  Then I saw my neighbor scooping it onto to his baked potato like it was butter or sour cream.  I said "What the hell is that?" and then he went on to tell me how good it is for my health. Being that I like coconuts, I thought I would I go some from Nectars health food store in El Centro until I learned a 16 ounce jar was $30 and I decided to pass.

With that in mind, there was an article on coconut oil in Cuenca highlife.this week.  Now generally speaking I find these nutrition articles boring because it as if she is writing for a health nutrition magazine instead of writing for the Ecuador or Cuenca expat community.  What the hell are the editors thinking?  Next thing you know, we will start seeing generic articles on plumbing.

In any case, since the article does not address the cost of the product, I decided to do so in the comment section.  Howver, the comment never made it past the sensors. What did I say?

nards barley
June 26, 2015
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Due to its high price for a jar, I have no idea what I am missing.

For those curious, the best price for a 16 ounce jar of coconut oil at Amazon.com is $7.99and they go up to around $13 a jar.

So, for those coming from the united states, you might want to stick a couple of jars in your luggage.

However, the article seems to suggest that maybe the hype about coconut oil is not warranted.  This opinion did not seem to sit well with everyone.

While I appreciate learning about the superior use of coconut oil in pie crust, your article for the most part is disingenuous to the extreme. It is not just what you say, which includes quoting the now completely disgraced FDA and Wikipedia, and bad mouthing one of the few licensed medical doctors in the United States with enough guts to stand-up to the military pharmaceutical complex (Dr Mercola MD). It is also what you leave out. You do not mention the anti-microbial benefits of coconut oil, the proven benefits for cognitive health, the importance of saturated fat in our diet, the fact that your profession had people go on a disastrous low fat diet for the past three decades, and the fact that coconut oil is one of the only oils that is safe to cook with. You also insinuate that saturated fat is bad for us, and you throw in an unsubstanciated reference to “someone” who believes that coconut oil lowers cholesterol. It does not lower total cholesterol. It is neutral in this regard. What is more important is that there is no correlation between elevated levels of cholesterol and increased risk of heart disease or stroke.
You have clearly bought the establishment line and like the FDA, Wikipedia, and low fat diets you are actively disseminating half-truths, glaring omissions and disinformation that works against our capacity to be healthy.

I suspect that the person leaving that message was the owner of Nectars healthfood store, since he goes by the same name.

Perhaps what is required is some research into the process of extracting the oil from the coconut.
In the Philippines when we buy in bulk we get 10 coconuts for one US dollar.  It's like they grow on trees!!  My wife cuts out all of the coconut meat and puts it in a blender with warm water and grinds it up good, then puts it in a pan, brings it to a boil and then lowers the heat to cook off the excess water.  What is left is coconut oil.  With big and medium sized coconuts the amount of resulting oil is about 2 oz per coconut, so the raw materials for about 20 oz of coconut oil costs $1 US.  Please realize we last did this in 2008, your coconut prices may vary.

mugtech wrote:

Perhaps what is required is some research into the process of extracting the oil from the coconut.
In the Philippines when we buy in bulk we get 10 coconuts for one US dollar.  It's like they grow on trees!!  My wife cuts out all of the coconut meat and puts it in a blender with warm water and grinds it up good, then puts it in a pan, brings it to a boil and then lowers the heat to cook off the excess water.  What is left is coconut oil.  With big and medium sized coconuts the amount of resulting oil is about 2 oz per coconut, so the raw materials for about 20 oz of coconut oil costs $1 US.  Please realize we last did this in 2008, your coconut prices may vary.

I know a gringo in Cuenca who I consider to be part of the lunatic fringe, who had bought a couple thousand dollars worth of coconut oil from India using the website Alibaba, and had it shipped to Ecuador.  Many months after hearing him tell me this, his product was still tied up in customs in Guayaquil,  and was having to pay all sorts of fees and incurring lots of time and effort to try and get it released. Hopefully coconut oil has a long shelf life.

This outstanding restaurant review warrants your perusal.

http://tribelr.com/posts/guess-where-i-went-in-cuenca

Nards Barley wrote:

This outstanding restaurant review warrants your perusal.

http://tribelr.com/posts/guess-where-i-went-in-cuenca

What a freak!  Spends $1.95 for breakfast (two eggs, two small sausages, etc.), uses the restaurant's spotless restroom, takes a packet of jelly she didn't really want just to "get more" for her budget-busting outlay and complains throughout her absolutely riveting account of her trip to McDonald's about how she wishes they'd curl up and die.  If I were in Ecuador (or anywhere else in the world) and had to associate at all with such a bitter, unhappy person I'd stick Egg McMuffins in my mouth until I choked myself to death.

Nards Barley wrote:

So, for those coming from the united states, you might want to stick a couple of jars (of coconut oil) in your luggage.

Only two problems here.  One is the prohibition against bringing in liquids in an airplane carry-on bag.  Two is if the coconut oil bottles are packed in checked luggage...and then an oversized bag falls on them on the arrivals carousel, or your mozo finds some creative way to drop or damage them.

As for the guy who brought in thousands of dollars worth of coconut oil still sitting in customs, he stumbled upon the best way to awaken the dogs of SENAE:  try to import more of one product than a single Gringo could consume in his 3-and-a-half expected years in Ecuador.  So they set about figuring a way to tax it as a commercial re-sale product.

Anyway....good research and reporting, Nards.

cccmedia in Quito