How do I get a medical internship in Saudi Arabia?

Sounds intersting @abumuhammad. Would you please elaborate what's an islamic version of healthcare.

TheLegendLeads wrote:

Sounds intersting @abumuhammad. Would you please elaborate what's an islamic version of healthcare.

Very few hospitals do take interns from other countries. In any case you need to be here, write the pre-licensing tests and then apply for a job as regular physician under the Ministry of Health and they will assign you to some random Primary Health Center, some where remote.

Now as to Islamic Version of Healthcare I am also interested to know what it is.

Well what I meant by "Islamic Healthcare" is a system where the Islamic laws are observed. For example, male doctors will be prioritized on treating male patients and vice versa, unless that is not possible (eg. no same gender doctor is available).

Just to illustrate this point, I cannot tolerate the thought of having to do per-rectal examination on every female patient admitted -under my care- for abdominal pain. They would not feel comfortable either. A female doctor should best do it, but here in my country such reasoning is usually not tolerated.

Thanks for the reply. But I guess trying to start my internship in Saudi Arabia sounds difficult.

Salam,

I tried my best to resist commenting on this post but I failed

I personally find it hard to swallow when I see a medical professional refusing to treat a patient just for being of the opposite sex. What about the oath they had taken !!
Rofyddah  Al Aslamiyah, who is known as the ” First Muslim Nurse” used to treat men and women equally, actually she used to treat more men than women and that was during prophet Mohammed life and he did not ask her to stop

I agree with you @ahmadaq. That will be gender discrimination.

It's all about patients' personal preferences; for example, many ladies prefer male docs for child delivery and dentistry coz they believe stronger hands are better.

The issue @abumuhammad has mentioned could be the availibility problem. I don't see any connection with Islam.

...My opinion of course, anyone may disagree

Well this kinda escalated quickly. But let us take this as a healthy discussion.

I do not think this is a discrimination, because in discrimination one party is oppressed in favour of another, but in this situation no one is being oppressed. Its just a matter of preference.

@ahmadaq It is not fair to compare exactly our situation with the time of sahaabah. During war, the situation is tense hence every possible action is necessary, so Rufaydah was there nursing the soldiers. Remember the medical facilities and the number and quality of doctors nowadays are obviously much better. Yes, if we were to get to a war zone today, of course we can apply the above reasoning.

Do not get me wrong, I never refuse to treat any female patients. I simply prefer a system where it prioritizes male doctors for male patients and vice versa, IF there is no risk of undertreatment. For fear of undertreatment, then this rule can always be broken and that is fine for me.

A female patient once accuses a male doctor of sexual harassment. But what he did was just a simple, standard examination. The innocent doctor felt embarrassed and depressed. If you were in that doctor's shoes, how do you feel?

If your wife is admitted to the hospital for abdominal pain, and a male doctor is to to check his back passage, how do you feel? What would your wife feel? Some people may have no problem with this, but I believe many will not. Even I as a doctor do not feel this is exactly the right thing to do, morally.

Don't you think there is nothing wrong for making a female doctor to do that simple procedure for me? The patient will never be under-treated. I am trying to respect her chastity, not discriminating. Sadly but true, apparently I am not allowed to do that here. Sometimes I can see the humiliation and anger in some of my female patients.

However, I do agree that this gender issue is not clear cut between right or wrong. In certain situations, same gender is preferable. On another, this is not the case. It is true that there are some patients who don't bother at all whether their doctors are male or female.

So in short, some doctors do bother about these issues. Some do not. I belong to the first group. So that is why I am posting here, looking for an alternative working environment. Its just a matter of preference. Nothing more.

abumuhammad wrote:

Well this kinda escalated quickly. But let us take this as a healthy discussion.

I do not think this is a discrimination, because in discrimination one party is oppressed in favour of another, but in this situation no one is being oppressed. Its just a matter of preference.

@ahmadaq It is not fair to compare exactly our situation with the time of sahaabah. During war, the situation is tense hence every possible action is necessary, so Rufaydah was there nursing the soldiers. Remember the medical facilities and the number and quality of doctors nowadays are obviously much better. Yes, if we were to get to a war zone today, of course we can apply the above reasoning.

Do not get me wrong, I never refuse to treat any female patients. I simply prefer a system where it prioritizes male doctors for male patients and vice versa, IF there is no risk of undertreatment. For fear of undertreatment, then this rule can always be broken and that is fine for me.

A female patient once accuses a male doctor of sexual harassment. But what he did was just a simple, standard examination. The innocent doctor felt embarrassed and depressed. If you were in that doctor's shoes, how do you feel?

If your wife is admitted to the hospital for abdominal pain, and a male doctor is to to check his back passage, how do you feel? What would your wife feel? Some people may have no problem with this, but I believe many will not. Even I as a doctor do not feel this is exactly the right thing to do, morally.

Don't you think there is nothing wrong for making a female doctor to do that simple procedure for me? The patient will never be under-treated. I am trying to respect her chastity, not discriminating. Sadly but true, apparently I am not allowed to do that here. Sometimes I can see the humiliation and anger in some of my female patients.

However, I do agree that this gender issue is not clear cut between right or wrong. In certain situations, same gender is preferable. On another, this is not the case. It is true that there are some patients who don't bother at all whether their doctors are male or female.

So in short, some doctors do bother about these issues. Some do not. I belong to the first group. So that is why I am posting here, looking for an alternative working environment. Its just a matter of preference. Nothing more.

An interesting discussion indeed. I am a moderate in my thoughts and belief, not a confused moderate . But a moderate who believes that our social paradigm has shifted so much that things that are considered morally wrong once are no longer taboo. We have reached an age where such things are trivial to us rather than to realize its importance. I agree with Abu Muhammad, I believe its a choice for individuals to decide. But then again I don't want to call this / brand it as "Islamic". As Muslims we should show the same courtesy to all irrespective of their belief.

To be honest it will not make me feel less embarrassed being seen by a male doctor for my Hemorrhoids examination versus being seen by a female doctor, I will be equally uncomfortable (thank you for making me sharing my hemorrhoids story with the world.. YES WORLD I had Hemorrhoids and am proud of it loool) . 
Let me tell you how I came to form my opinion on this;
Once I saw a female doctor refusing to give vaccination to a baby because the baby was accompanied by his father and not his mother. Also I personally was denied medical care because the female doctor asked that I should come back next day because she does not see male patients (what if my condition can't wait for NEXT DAY! What happened to few second could have saved his life argument?!). When you give people allowances to escape from doing what they are paid for to do, then trust me they will use those allowances.
The way I see it:
1.When someone CHOOSED to be in the healthcare domain, he or she should understand completely the requirements and the consequences of his/her decision.
2.The decision of seeing a male or a female doctor should be on the hand of the patient and not on the hand of the healthcare giver.(This I strongly believe in )
Here in Saudi, lots of healthcare professionals share my views and others share yours and that led to a recommendation (not sure if it's a low) that when a female patient is being seen by a male doctor, a female nurse should be present if the patient was not escorted by someone she knows.

Well, as a doctor, I can hardly think of patients as males or females, they are simply patients, and I can never feel uncomfortable while examine a male, coz I don't think of him as a "male" otherwise it'd be gross! Sorry I just find it hard to swallow. But when it comes for patients, obviously males would prefere males and females would prefer females especially when the situation is a bit intimate. And as a patient I'd rather have a female gyn if she's competent for example. But as a doctor, I cannot not want to examine a patient just because he's a male, coz I can't just think of him sexually! It'd be sick!  Sorry but internship is really important and choosing where to do it based on this issue is kinda.. Dunno, unwise! You would want to do it where you would learn the most, KSA or anywhere else.

Alstroemeria wrote:

Sorry but internship is really important and choosing where to do it based on this issue is kinda.. Dunno, unwise! You would want to do it where you would learn the most, KSA or anywhere else.

I had a quick look at the posts after yesterday. So how do we conclude?

- It's a matter core of patients' preferences and comfort.
- Unavailbility may lead to re-consideration of above mentioned.
- No link to any religion.

Did I miss anything?

TheLegendLeads wrote:

I had a quick look at the posts after yesterday. So how do we conclude?

- It's a matter core of patients' preferences and comfort.
- Unavailbility may lead to re-consideration of above mentioned.
- No link to any religion.

Did I miss anything?

Guess not.

Hello everyone...
I want to ask a question. im going to marry before my housejob in dammam saudia from pakistan kindly if anyone of you knows is there any system of house job so that i can practice in dammam after my mbbs. Kindly rake ne out from this problem if anyone of you knows about it. thanks

There is no such system.  House job here is only for Saudi medical graduates, as far as I know.  You can try contacting the private medical universities in dammam and surrounding areas, if any, and asking them.

Ohhhhhhh , cant believe you said that about Malaysia! if you want very western health care and best go to king faisal. i work in healthcare and i wish to discuss matters with you in private!
massalama

I've read your comment and I think you have an idea how to apply as medical intern in saudi Arabia so I want to ask you regarding about it. Im from Philippines and i will finish my MD this coming May. and I want to have my internship due to personal reasons. I hope you can help me. Thank you so much and God bless

Hi ,
i do not understand what you mean by Islamic health care? my opinion is its useless when it comes to peoples' life . female drs seeing female patients!! there are not enough female doctors in Saudi for that. Medicine is very much male dominated, internationally.
Any way, no chance for internship for you on grounds of your citizenship.
Saudi is a country in the making , there is Saudisation programme at present. The natives being encouraged to take the reigns off expats , so to speak!
You best bet would be to apply as a houseman, on condition that they NEED you.
Good luck