Whether johannesburg is safe to live and work

Hello sujitha123.

Welcome to Expat.com!

Hope you'll get some feedbacks from other members soon.

Thank you,
Aurélie

Hi Sujitha

I've lived in Johannesburg for almost three years, and just like everywhere else it's important to know where's safe and where's not, and to not take unnecessary risks. You soon get used to the simple things like checking that your doors and windows are closed at night, or that your car's doors have locked when you leave it at a shopping centre.

My best advice to you is to not try to save money on your accommodation. For an unsafe one-bedroom apartment, the cheapest 'decent' one you're going to find is R3 000, whereas a really secure apartment in a complex surrounded by an electric fence and with 24/7 guards at the entrance gate will go for around R5 000. At first, saving R2 000 sounds like a good saving every month, until you ask yourself how much not being robbed or held up at gunpoint in your own home is worth.

I'd definitely say that coming to Johannesburg is worth it, because the city has numerous beautiful places to explore, especially if it's your first time in the country. Just take note:
1: Stay safe. The more security at your home, the better.
2: Don't drive in areas you don't know at night.
3: When you drive, don't always trust your GPS: it will happily take you straight through a dangerous area
4: Be alert to people around you. If you feel unsafe, go somewhere public, or speak to a nearby security guard.

It sounds like a lot, but you soon get used to it. In the end, safety is not something you should ever take for granted, no matter which country you live in.

Thanks Reillusioned !! As you quoted the accommodation matters rather thinking of money. Can you kindly let me know what the rent for a gated community .... ? How about the cost of living then ...

Well Sujitha, your best bet is to look at these two sites to get an idea of the costs relevant to the area closest to your work. I recommend that you Google 'Privateproperty' and 'Gumtree Johannesburg'.

If you're trying to make up your mind on a place, it wouldn't hurt to use Google Street View to check out what the suburb/outside of the complex looks like.

Like I said in my reply, a one-bedroom place in an upmarket complex will go for around R5 000/month (normally excluding electricity - you can add another R500 for that). An option for you to consider is flat-share: you might be prepared to share an apartment with either strangers or co-workers at your new job. That can make things a lot cheaper.

Regarding cost of living, that depends completely on you. What sort of transport are you going to have? Are you going to buy a secondhand car, or are you going to get a lift from a co-worker at your new job? You cannot survive in Johannesburg relying on public transport (the only decent bus service is the Gautrain bus service - but there's no guarantee there will be a bus stop anywhere close to your home or work).

Regarding food, it's the same question. Regular monthly groceries are going to cost you around R1 500/month, but if you like eating out that amount is going to skyrocket. A fast-food meal (from McDonalds or KFC) will cost you around R50, but a sit-down meal in a restaurant will be R100 easily (excluding drinks and tip for the waiter).

A GP doctor's appointment will cost you R440 excluding medicine at an Intercare branch (I recommend them), a dentist's appointment will start at around R700.

Insurance is also a big expense in South Africa: you'll have a choice of car insurance, home contents insurance (this is cheap and will protect any valuables you have from theft) and medical insurance (a hospital plan will be a good idea just to cover yourself against emergencies - State hospitals are generally frowned upon, and Private hospitals are so expensive you'll need medical insurance).

Petrol is around R11.50/litre, a movie at a cinema will cost you R50, a pie and drink for lunch will be R25, clothes are highly variable (e.g. jeans ranging from R150 to R1000+ depending on brand and store).

As you're in IT, you might want to invest in a 3G modem for your laptop (if you have one at home). A prepaid modem will cost you R1000 and a 2GB data bundle will be around R200 ... you can get it all cheaper if you take out a two-year contract (because you won't have a local credit record, I'd recommend you apply for a contract through MTN).

Hope all that helps!

Reillusioned thanks a lot, you gave a all round ether... will check all the things you mentioned ...... cheers ...

Any time Sujitha, it's no problem! If there's anything else you'd like to know, just post the questions here. Moving to a new country is one of the biggest changes you can make.

What race you are pretty much determines how safe you will be in South Africa.  Secondly, where you live, again determined by your race, depends on how safe you will be.

If you are white European or American, and you live in a fortress with 2 meter high walls topped with electrified barbwire, then you will have a false sense of safety.

If you are anything other than lily white, you are going to have a very interesting time in SA.  I thought 25 years after Apartheid ended that things would be better.  Nope is the answer there.  My experience in the rainbow nation has been one of running headlong into a racial wall. I am white American and was not raised with racism.  I have friends of all races and hues. In the southern suburb of Tokai, I teach at a mixed race school.  The students seem to all get along quite well regardless of race. However, my landlady who is only 40 years old evicted me for having a black South African colleague over for lunch!  Yep! I'm now living in a hostel.  When school resumes in a few weeks I'll be living in a tent near the school.  Such is the consequences of breaking the color code.

My advice is to steer clear of SA for about a 1000 years. Maybe by then, the survivors of the coming environmental and fossil fuel crisis will have managed to also overcome racism and hopefully build an egalitarian society.... but I doubt it.

To use your own phrase, Angharad, "such is the consequences" of poorly choosing a landlady, and not staying somewhere you have a bit more independence. Because you made one bad decision, managed to unearth one relic of the past and got burned as a result, you're going to give advice about avoiding South Africa for 1 000 years? I'm sure you reached that number through careful consideration and sociological analysis, of course.

I'm also interested in how you can talk about 'If you're anything other than lily white' ... you've said that you're white, so how would you know how somebody who isn't 'lily white' is treated? Or, for that matter, a shade of white other than that found on a lily.

Angharad, if you go into America's deep South and rent an apartment from a member of the Ku Klux Klan, I'm sure you'll be treated in exactly the same manner. Guess we'll have to write all of the US off then as well, huh?

Grow up, get out of your tent, pay for a better apartment next time. It's a simple lesson: don't turn it into World War 3.

Hi,

Could we calm down and avoid going off topic here?

Thanks
Armand

How about 'Randburg' area in Johannesburg. Any inputs???????

Randburg is a popular working-class suburb in Johannesburg, known for its cheaper rents but suburbs which are more rundown than the trendier parts of the city. You might also find that traffic poses a problem during rush hour, so it all depends where you're going to work. Nobody wants to sit in the car for 1.5 hours every day after work and in the morning, trust me.

Johannesburg North is where the trendy suburbs are: e.g. Lonehill, Fourways. Staying any place 'inside the highway ring' (e.g. Bryanston) will generally see you get to work a lot quicker, but travelling into the heart of Sandton will still take about 45 minutes.

Definitely avoid staying in Roodepoort unless you work in Johannesburg South - the traffic heading north along the highway from there is crazy in the mornings.

My work place will be Randburg. how much safe the place Randburg? and where i need to take my house near by with normal rent? how will be the life in Randburg?

Oh, that should be fine then Sujitha. It really depends on you and how comfortable you are with travelling, and the various shortcuts you manage to find. Personally, I prefer staying within 10km of where I work in Johannesburg - and if you both live and work in Randburg you'll be fine. I don't think Randburg is any more dangerous than any other suburb: the same precautions regarding the need for electric fences and access control with guards apply. Even at your place of work, you'll want to make sure that you'll have off-street secure parking, because without that you'll end up paying a lot for car insurance.

Hi Reillusioned
Can you give some inputs on internet and phone, I use a basic model phone, I need to call india atleast twice in a day for an hour or too. Is there any sily talk or any thing which you can recommend by cost wise. How expensive if I need to call india through phone. whether is tha advicable/

Second thing, I am going to share a room with one of my friend, I like to take a WI-FI connection to connect my laptop. Which provider will be good and what about the cost too......

How about the mobile providers ... In UK and US internet comes with the phone connection.. How about in SA....

If you can provide me with a approximate cost, it will be helpful for me ....

Hi Sujitha

South Africa's mobile phone operators are:
Vodacom, MTN, 8ta and CellC

Data bundle rates are starting to get slashed across the board at the moment, but it's still very expensive compared to European standards. Like I've said already here, you're looking at around R200 for 2GB, unless you take out a two-year contract. I've got a wifi router and 2GB monthly bundle on a contract through MTN, for example, for R159.

I have no clue about phoning India, but your best bet might be using Skype on a cheap data plan. Then again, check the websites of the above operators and see what their international calling fees are from SA.

Last-mile cable infrastructure is a major problem in SA, because it's controlled by the state-run Telkom monopoly. If having an ADSL cable is important to you, make sure that the apartment you're renting has this pre-installed (your landlord will brag about it in the advert if it's the case). Getting a new cable installed by Telkom is a question of months and may never happen depending on the existing infrastructure in your suburb.

Rather leave your internet decisions to when you're in SA. If your rented apartment is in an area with good 3G coverage then you're fine, but there's no point in buying a big data bundle if your apartment is in a dead-zone (there are many of these in Johannesburg).

Hi Reillusioned , If a person have R12000 PM can led a life in johburg, As you know indians will look to save money... How much a person can save with this...I am a normal girl wont spend much... My priority will be need good room, Internet, phone and some time hangouts with friends ....

Honestly Sujitha, R12 000 isn't much by Johannesburg standards, although it is very good compared to what the average South African earns. It's just that Johannesburg is a big city, and with a big city comes big expenses! Remember, if your salary is R12 000 before tax, after your employer deducts tax you're only going to have R10 500 or so. I do think you'll manage to cope, but you'll probably want to only spend R4 000 on rent (seriously see if you can arrange a flat-share with another lady you can trust), R1 500 on groceries, R1 000 on entertainment, R1 000 on phone and internet, R2 000 on transport, R1 000 on a hospital plan (try Discovery Health - South Africa's largest health insurers)... as you can see, there's rapidly not much left for other things like clothes, doctor visits, furniture etc. Just play it by ear, but to start off with rather try your best to keep your expenses as low as possible: you can always spend more, but once you're over-committed (e.g. on an apartment or expensive car) you can't always spend less.

Miss the taste of the sausage and Nando's

Hi,

ur working for which company in bangalore???
joburg is flooded with IT guys from (india) they normally have their own thing going and dont mingle around much with locals.
they work on projects in banks like investic,rnb,absa,etc
so if ur company has a lot of people here on secondment u can chill... if ur having family , or else planning to live with friends..u wnt feel any of the issues...they can guide u...but do make sure that year down the line u have an exit plan to go back to india as u might get stuck here.

as far as safety is concerned i will say that if u take care of few things like...no show off of money, no roaming on streets or talking to strangers, driving with windows rolled up avoiding to travel to unknown locations specially at night then its fine.
also note it is a damn expensive place need to be a smart shopper here.

by the way if u do come... dont just mingle around with IT people from india as it will be no fun ull feel as if ur still in india ...try to explore and have some local friends as well

like any big cities, it depends where you intend to live / work ... I would not recommend central J'burg - where would you be located ?

To be honest, I think 12000 is very little in Joburg and not at all better then average EDUCATED South African. I guess it depends how much you are earning now, and how much experience you have. If you have degree and 1-2 years experience, you should be able to make minimum 20 000 before taxes (15 000 net)

Whaaaat? R20 000 before taxes, with only 1-2 year's experience? Is that while working as a surgeon, Sa11y? I've certainly never heard of any starting salary like that, but maybe multinationals pay a bit higher.

Reilussioned, I work for international FMCG business, in supply chain. This is what we pay in my department. Believe me, I know, I manage one of the departments. Salaries in my team (before taxes)
- international graduate: straight after Masters degree: 10 000 rand with all accommodation and travel expenses covered. If graduate stays after 6 months, they get approx. 20 000 rand per month
- local graduate, no experience, BCom  studying for Masters: 13 000 rand
- 1 other guy in my team: 2 years experience from competition, starting salary 25 000 rand, now after 2.5 years on approx. 32 000 rand
- young lady in my team that recently relocated to Dubai: starting salary after 2 years in retail company: 30 000 rand (she was good and tough negotiator)
Good to know we are a good payer, but we are also very demanding.
You really need to know what you are in for. All my guys deserve every cent for the work they do. They are very good. Experience is not always the most important thing, it's often about attitude.

Reilusioned, one more thing - it's all probably related to industry, but in mine there seem to be shortage of good candidates. I recently interviewed local candidate, 26 year old with 3 years of professional experience (not counting the odd bar and shelf stacking jobs while she was studying). She wanted 40 000 rand! I actually could not believe it. So she was offered something around 35 000 (still a lot more than my other experienced guy) and... She did not accept the offer.

omg Sa11y, my mind boggles. I'm a magazine editor with a University degree and five years' professional experience, and I earn half that. Next time somebody turns down a R35 000 job, just give me a shout. I dance, sing and tell a half-decent joke from time to time. On a side-note, good on you and your company for paying such decent salaries.

Joburg is safe in some places, and not safe in others. Once you ask around, you can learn where and when is best.

Of the salaries I've seen, generally if you are qualified you will earn enough. However, one thing to note is a misconception that Joburg earns much more than Cape Town. Very thorough studies show that at most Joburgers earn 7% more, and often less.

Johannesburg is pretty safe depending on the areas. Also most people and the media over exaggerate the crime like we are living in a war zone.

Hi,
I am from India and travelling to Johannesburg on dependent visa with my husband who has been deputed to JHB by an Indian IT company.As per information provided by the MNC, accommodation will be provided in a hotel at JHB( details not known).Duration of stay is about 2 months.My concern is, will it be safe for me to stay alone at the hotel while my husband (as well as others from the team) will be at office?

Sonata, the answer to that is obvious: it all depends on the hotel. If it's in Johannesburg South or Central, then it could be risky. If it's in Sandton, and has a formal star rating (e.g. three-star), then chances are it will be very comfy and safe (proper hotels generally rely on key cards in the elevators which protect their guest rooms and all have 24-hour security). I'd say that you should find out - Johannesburg is only safe if you spend money for your safety, and even then safety isn't guaranteed. I'm sure you don't want to be fearful in a foreign country, so ask your husband to insist on more details. At the very least, once they give you the address for the hotel you can check out the details on google streetview: google.co.za/maps

Thanks a lot Reillusioned for the valuable info. I will definitely try to find out the details about the hotel as early as possible.

Dear Reillusioned...I have been following your statements and really appreciate that you have been very patient in addressing queries from various people.
I am expected to be in Joburg next week for my new assignment and my office is going to be in spartan, where should i be looking for house which is safe? I would be keen to have a furnished apartment than a independent house. Please suggest some locations which are safe and not too far from spartan and have some life around.

Also would it be ok & not very expensive to stay in a Hotel apartment?
Regards
Anil

Hi Anil

Hotels are too expensive for long-term stay. Generally a 'decent' hotel won't cost you less than R800 a night ... over 30 days you're looking at R24 000 a month then!

Regarding Spartan, I'm not 100% familiar with the area, but generally it's an industrial zone right next to the airport. That said, like I always say, any area generally has its good and bad residential areas, and the only way you're going to get any feel for that is A: On the ground; B: looking remotely using Google Map's 'Streetview' functionality (just plug in the address and click on the 'View Streetview' option).

My personal guess is that your best bet for 'decent' accommodation close to Spartan is in the suburb of Edenvale - Boksburg, Germiston and Benoni are three other options, but fall more into the 'poor working class' category. So long as you don't live on the borders of townships like Alexandra or Lethabong you'll be fine.

As a rule of thumb, rent should be costing you R5 000/month for a one-bedroom apartment - anything cheaper than that is in a less safe area, or a bit more run-down. R5 000/month and up and you'll be looking at somewhere in a security-controlled apartment complex.

Hope that helps! Good luck with the move

Hi Reillusioned

Thanks for your super quick response...

My budget is approx. R8000- R 10000 for a one bedroom fully furnished apartment and would be looking for an apartment in a high rise, Can i get such a place in Sandton? Also please suggest if I can look at places like morningside, fourways etc. if not too far from spartan?

As per google, the distance between spartan and Sandton is approx 15 kms....which i feel is not very far if traffic is not a problem between spartan & sandton.

Regards
Anil

Hi Anil - you'll find that there aren't that many high-rises in Johannesburg. Most of the rich people live in standalone houses, while the upper middle-class prefer the security of apartments in security complexes (typically you're looking at groups of buildings with three floors, two apartments to a floor, with the whole complex surrounded by electric fencing and with a 24/7 security post). When you're looking for an apartment, look for 'loft unit' - that'll be the ones at the top with the best views!

There are some private apartments in the towers in Sandton, but those are usually mega-expensive. On the other side of the coin, there are very cheap towers with run-down flats in bad areas in town (like Hillbrow) which you must avoid at all costs.

Regarding living in Sandton and travelling up to Spartan, I think that will probably be ok, but it will be safer to live as close to your work as possible. The thing you need to understand is that there is a HUGE amount of traffic heading between Pretoria and Sandton, south along the N1 highway in the mornings and north in the afternoons. I reckon that could end up effecting your commute, although you'll technically be heading the other way against traffic. The M1 Highway (the main route through Sandton) is generally clogged at the best of times, so if you can avoid it (i.e. if you're not working in Sandton) then do. Like I said, check out Edenvale: it's a lot closer!

My best recommendation to you is to insist on signing a six-month contract wherever you live, with the option to renew it: it means that you'll be able to move out of the apartment in a reasonable amount of time if the traffic is impossible, or there's a noisy neighbour or something

Hi all, really interesting topic, it helps me a lot to get an introduction as a potential expat. I may get a job in Joburg in the next month, probably for 1-2 years or more, and i have a (stupid?) question to ask, before my final interview: my wife is black, i am white - what problems (if any) i can expect if moving together there?
Thanks

You don't have to expect any problems - South Africa is 20 years into its democracy as of 2014, so there's  no public taboo around interracial couples. Due to the differences in culture in South Africa (more so than overseas) these couples are still viewed mostly with curiosity, but you shouldn't find open discrimination outside of ultra-conservative/racist circles (Johannesburg is a progressive city with a younger generation so you'll be better off there than in Oranje - a tiny town not renowned for its racial inclusiveness ). Good luck with the move!

Anil - is there a specific reason why you want to live in Sandton?
Because if you are thinking about security, there are many secure areas in East Rand (a lot closer to Spartan than Sandton) where you will pay less.
There is Bedfordview, Dunvegan, Dowerglen, Edenglen, Greenstone and few more. All have security estates.