Purchasing an automobile in Hungary

americantraveler wrote:

Hello,

I will be purchasing an automobile from a private Hungarian "seller" very soon.....

I am a tourist so I will not be re-registering this auto in Hungary. Rather I will drive it out of Hungary after my holiday. I understand there may be an 8 day "grace" period to allow me (the "buyer") time to sort things out. Is that true? Is that 8 calendar days or 8 business days? .....

Why would you want to buy a car in Hungary and export it?

Cars are a stupidly expensive rip off in Hungary.

You can get a tax free car in say, Amsterdam, and export it from the EU back to say, the USA, at the end of your holiday.

Cars are much cheaper in other EU countries than Hungary.

Thanks for the kind reply, and I am sure you have a feel for the local used car market conditions in Hungary. But in the global picture, Hungary still has moderate used car prices (for the models I am interested in anyway). If you think Hungary has high car prices, ever try to buy a Japanese car in Japan for export? Yikes !!! You would think that since the car is manufactured there, they are plentiful and delivery costs are nill, the price would be low. That is absolutely not the case.

As a professional engineer (and an even more committed environmentalist) I seek out ultra fuel efficient autos that have not been importeted into the USA. This is always due to stupid, irrational, short-sighted US government policies driven purely by greed. (Aided and abeted by a powerful, protectionist domestic automobile industry).

A few Japanese cars, still available in Hungary (again at fairly moderate price) consume as little at 4L of fuel per 100Kms. That kind of efficiency is unheard of in the USA. So that is the reason for my professional and personal interest.

So, back to my original questions, what is the procedure for buying a used car from a private seller in Hungary?

Thanks again,
Rob

americantraveler wrote:

..... they are plentiful and delivery costs are nill, the price would be low. That is absolutely not the case. ...I seek out ultra fuel efficient autos that have not been importeted into the USA. ....A few Japanese cars, still available in Hungary (again at fairly moderate price) consume as little at 4L of fuel per 100Kms. That kind of efficiency is unheard of in the USA. So that is the reason for my professional and personal interest. ...

Ok, understood. I'll leave the actual procedure to others.

I've bought and sold cars quite a number of times in Europe. You can buy fuel efficient cars of the type you described, anywhere in the EU and they all have the same environmental standard. The latest one is Euro V (Euro 5). If you want to buy a car like that, you can buy one anywhere in the EU, not just in Hungary. Assuming you want tax paid, bought over the counter, you will pay 27% VAT (Value Added Tax) in Hungary but only 14% in Luxembourg for EXACTLY the same vehicle. It's already a 13% difference. It makes no sense to buy a tax paid car in Hungary (and pay the Hungarian transfer tax, non-existent in say, the UK) if it is for export. If you buy a new (EU-)tax unpaid car for export, you can drive it around in Europe for up to 6 months if you have a non-EU passport and you are going to export the car at the end of the 6 months.

Be also aware that insurance is a pain. However, all insurance in the EU is valid in any other EU country for the minimum liability only. If you want all risks insurance, don't buy it in Hungary as they have not worked out yet how to design and market an all inclusive, all risks insurance. Everything is an extra and their methods obscure. There's no getting around this, if you try and insure a car with plates from one EU country in another EU country, you'll find it next to impossible. There are brokers who will cover you but you will pay a very large amount for it and have to cover most of the risks yourself.  There's no real single market for vehicle insurance in the EU. So, the summary is that you need to insure the car in the country of registration if you want an easier life.

Regarding the number plates, in Hungary, the plates stay with the car when it's sold. This varies according to EU ocuntry. In places like Austria, the numbers go with the insurance and change when the ownership changes (as the plates have town indicators). In the UK and quite a few other countries, the plates also stay with the car. In a lot of countries, the physical plates are provided by the police. In other places, you can just go to an auto parts place with the registration document and have them made up on the spot.

Thanks again for the valuable insights. Clearly, as we say here in the southwest USA, "This is obviously not your first rodeo" and I appreciate the concise, factual "nuts and bolts" info.

Naturally I want to fully comply with Hungarian motor vehicle laws but also of course I am not interested in needlessly paying substantial VAT. Especially as this auto will be quickly exported and will no longer be on Hungarian public roads, at the end of my holiday.

Please expand on your comment "and pay the Hungarian Transfer Tax". Doesn't that only apply to another Hungarian buyer that must be obligated to transfer ownership and registration into that new owner's name? I don't believe that applies in my case. As a matter of fact, since I do not have Hungarian citizenship (or even residency), I don't believe I could transfer this auto into my name and register it in Hungary anyway. That has never been my intention. I just want to purchase the vehicle, insure it with a short term, third-party auto insurance policy as needed, drive it in Budapest and then drive it onto Germany for export on a RoRo ship.

TIA,

Rob

americantraveler wrote:

...

Naturally I want to fully comply with Hungarian motor vehicle laws but also of course I am not interested in needlessly paying substantial VAT. Especially as this auto will be quickly exported and will no longer be on Hungarian public roads, at the end of my holiday.
..... since I do not have Hungarian citizenship (or even residency), I don't believe I could transfer this auto into my name and register it in Hungary anyway. That has never been my intention. I just want to purchase the vehicle, insure it with a short term, third-party auto insurance policy as needed, drive it in Budapest and then drive it onto Germany for export on a RoRo ship. ..

You need an address card in your name to register the vehicle. I think you need to pay the transfer tax regardless of your residency as it's a transaction tax on property movements (like houses, boats, aeroplanes etc) within the country.

For export, you'll be given special number plates with an expiry date shown on the plate. Much depends on if you want to buy a new car or a used car. A used one, you will not get a VAT refund on the residual VAT present in the current value of the car. However, a new car can be purchsed without VAT if it is for export. Depends on what you want to do.  I would be very surprised if you could buy a European vehicle that would be compliant with California emissions legislation.

If you want to buy a used car for export, the market is better in Germany, Netherlands, Belgium or the UK, where there's a lot of experience in vehicle exports because of the large number of international organisations present (like NATO, EU etc). The larger market keeps down prices more effectively. If it's a new car, you might want to use a broker like this one Shipside. I've not used Shipside myself but they are well known for tax-free cars.

You can also just buy one from a garage and they will arrange for the appropriate number plates and insurance but a seamless shipping/customs process will need additional expertise.

Ok, thanks again as always. I learn something new each time you post.

I am familiar with the German 5-day "transit license plate/temporary EU registration" and am intending to utilize that option. 5-days is insufficient though for my holiday as I will be in Hungary for 11 days. I only wish there was a 10-day transit plate. I may have no choice but to buy two sets of 5-day plates - but at ~400 Euros total, that option quickly becomes a little steep.

I am still hoping someone will interject into this thread and tell me what Hungarian documents I need to be watchfull for when I fork over the frogs (money) and take delivery of the car.

Rob

americantraveler wrote:

Ok, thanks again as always. I learn something new each time you post.

I am familiar with the German 5-day "transit license plate/temporary EU registration" and am intending to utilize that option. 5-days is insufficient though for my holiday as I will be in Hungary for 11 days. ...

I think one has to distinguish between outside the EU and inside the EU and the common features on customs procedures on the EU borders.

You can get a "Z" plate from the customs office when you export the car outside of Hungary. This is valid 30 days. The situation for you could be more complex if you want German export plates as this implies some additional German procedure (why would you need to do the export procedure twice?). You should not need German plates if you have a Z plate from Hungary.

The situation is different for inter-EU exports/imports which I am more familiar with.  There's no excessive paper requirement for complicated deregistration procedures before registering in another EU country. You can deregister in some countries by ticking a box on the registration form and you don't even need to return the number plates. However, it depends very much on the countries involved.

For example, in Spain, you need to officially cancel the registration by proving you registered it elsewhere, otherwise you continue to be liable for the monthly/yearly taxes until the time the Spanish registration is cancelled. It's the same in some other countries too. However, in yet other EU countries, you can just declare the car "unused" and this is sufficient to get them off your back.

It might be best to take the previous owner with you, assuming they can speak English. Or you can speak Hungarian. My experience is that most public officials in Hungary do not speak English. Sometimes they can speak German. If you take the original owner, you can probably avoid the residence paperwork.

I think the message is that, while the EU might appear from outside as one "country" (which it isn't), it is by no means consistent or regularised in procedures, taxes, insurance and so on.

Your best bet is the Hungarian Z-plate based upon the 30 day limit of these plates.  According to the Internet, the following documents are needed to obtain a “Z” plate:

1) Both car plates
2) Original Hungarian car papers
3) Insurance for “Z” plates and international insurance
4) Original invoice or declaration on value with a valid stamp from the customs office
5) Original inspection paperwork
6) Green card
7) Car ownership document “Jarmu torzskonyv” which only applies to cars bought in Hungary
8) Passport
9) Copy of Hungarian residence permit, even if it has expired
10) Copy of drivering license
11) Export documents already stamped by the customs officer

WOW!!

Thanks for the first-rate, detailed analysis. I am indebted to you and appreciate the time and effort you have clearly put into answering my questions. Certainly buying cars in foreign countries (for a visitor) is not for the “faint of heart” but this has caused me to pause and re-evaluate.  As you say, so many differences within the EU continue to exist, which can have a critical impact on the outcome of my project.

Rob

americantraveler wrote:

WOW!!

Thanks for the first-rate, detailed analysis. I am indebted to you and appreciate the time and effort you have clearly put into answering my questions. Certainly buying cars in foreign countries (for a visitor) is not for the “faint of heart” but this has caused me to pause and re-evaluate.  As you say, so many differences within the EU continue to exist, which can have a critical impact on the outcome of my project.

Rob

My experience is based upon buying my own cars. However, I was bringing mine into Europe from North America and then registering it in different countries.

If you want to buy a new car, you should have an easier time for sure. As a US passport holder (presumably), you will be able to buy a car as a tourist, drive it around Europe, and then take it back to the USA much easier than taking a used one.

But once you'd done all that, I think your problems will be really only be starting. I think the most serious difficulties will be the emissions standards in California. 

One thing you might consider is buying an ex-USA military personnel car. Sometimes these come up for sale on various web sites used by military personnel and of course, they have the right documentation and standards. Even more interesting is that you can drive them about in Europe before exporting them back home.

Hi,

Also make sure to actually look at the car first, preferably with an experienced mechanic on your side. Just to make sure by "scratch free" the seller does not not mean "scratch-free front of a rear-ended car" and "scratch-free back of a frontalled car" welded together.

Some neighboring countries have lower import taxes thus lower prices, some have less fraud. Slovakia and Austria have both and are just a few hours driving from Budapest.

Thanks for the warning. Yes buying cars long distance can be risky. And it is very possible to travel a long way only to be presented with junk.  Which is a real bummer!

My experience though is that most people, most of the time, are pretty honest. And when it comes to cars there are car enthusiasts (serious car nuts) no matter where in the world you go. And they always take pride in their cars. In Argentina, proud car owners even go so far as to refer to their favorite car as “their mistress”. Try buying a Dnepr sidecar motorcycle from gang bangers in Kiev Ukraine when you don't speak Ukrainian (or Russian) and they certainly do not speak English! Hilarious outcome, but fueled by Vodka toasts, a very, very close inspection, pointing and a real mutual interest in machines made it all possible.

I always avoid the US Department of Transportation and Environmental Protection Agencies silly restrictions on small displacement, ultra-fuel efficient, turbo-diesel cars by simply buying cars that are at least 25 years old. These cars are exempt from DOT and EPA regulations but due to their age (1987 models or older) are few and far between. That is why I am returning to Hungary. Just for that sole purpose. Foolish I know, but it is my hobby.

Now if anyone knows of a LHD SMART Coupe, model years 2003 – 2007 or so, I would sure be interested. They are such pretty little bugs and in my hands, the petrol engine would quickly be removed and the sub frame, running gear and a 799cc cdi turbo diesel engine installed in its place.

What about car shows or car part swap meets in Budapest? (Jumbles in the UK and car bazaars in some Middle Eastern countries) Do such exist?

TIA
Rob

americantraveler wrote:

Foolish I know, but it is my hobby.

No hobby if foolish. Or maybe they all are. But then, does it really matter? We love them, that is all that counts.

I bet the full story about the Dnepr purchase is half the fun of owning it.

americantraveler wrote:

....
Now if anyone knows of a LHD SMART Coupe, model years 2003 – 2007 or so, I would sure be interested. They are such pretty little bugs and in my hands, the petrol engine would quickly be removed and the sub frame, running gear and a 799cc cdi turbo diesel engine installed in its place. ..

I just looked on German Ebay which is probably the place to look for LHD diesel Smart cars. No need to swap from petrol to diesel. Diesels are common in Europe. You can buy a Smart car already in the configuration required.  There are 27 diesel coupes available at the time I looked.

Click here:

German Ebay Smart Cars

There is a very lively and loving community of historic cars and motorbikes, very different from the regular used car dealers. The term is "veterán".
They seem to have swap meets (börze) regularly:
http://www.oldmotors.hu/index_elemei/Page498.htm
One of these is in my village, we sometimes go as spectators with the kids.
We were the audience judges on one occasion :-)

Thanks for posting that link, I used to attend classic vehicle events in Scotland so I want to try some in Hungary.

Thanks also for that link Gentlemen,

I should have been more accurate. I am looking for a Smart Roadster Coupe. The Roadster is the little beauty. The regular Smart 2for2 (?) coupe is really quite ugly (in my opinion).

Yes, I do have my eyes peeled on the German Ebay site for a Roadster Targa Top Coupe. I will be driving to Bremerhaven anyway, so who knows, perhaps I will have an opportunity to see a Roadster up close and check it out. Pity they aren't manufactured anymore. Apparently they weren't a financial success for Smart.

Rob

americantraveler wrote:

....I am looking for a Smart Roadster Coupe....Yes, I do have my eyes peeled on the German Ebay site ....

Couple on there now:

Roadsters....

americantraveler wrote:

I am looking for a Smart Roadster Coupe....Apparently they weren't a financial success for Smart

They were wildly popular. But due to some design problems the warranty claim expenses upon Daimler made them an ultimate cash loss. A pity Daimler didn't just fix the problems in production rather than terminate the line.

klsallee wrote:

americantraveler wrote:

I am looking for a Smart Roadster Coupe....Apparently they weren't a financial success for Smart

They were wildly popular. ....

Why?  You cannot get anything in it (and that's the same for all sports cars).

fluffy2560 wrote:

Why?  You cannot get anything in it (and that's the same for all sports cars).

You answered your own question. They are for performance driving and people who love to do same. They are not for transporting.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

Why?  You cannot get anything in it (and that's the same for all sports cars).

You answered your own question. They are for performance driving and people who love to do same. They are not for transporting.

Oh, really?! Well, that's alright then. I take it all back!

I think he meant hauling cargo :-)

Anyway, I have a car-related question: How do other married couples purchase cars?
We'd like a sensible car and spend as little as possible both on buying and maintenance, but sensible cars are by definition common. And it turns out "common" is the antonym of "fashionable".

So far I could think of painting a Suzuki or Opel unique, printing a full-body sticker, or buying a Daewoo with a Chevrolet logo.

Any other ideas to make women like plain cars?

szocske wrote:

I think he meant hauling cargo :-)

Anyway, I have a car-related question: How do other married couples purchase cars?
We'd like a sensible car and spend as little as possible both on buying and maintenance, but sensible cars are by definition common. And it turns out "common" is the antonym of "fashionable"...

Yes, I did mean hauling cargo (including kids).

Sometime ago I did a marketing course. One of the interesting diagnoses was that women's magazines are full of car advertisements, not necessarily cars aimed at women, but also men. The theory was that women influence their husbands much more than the husbands think.

szocske wrote:

How do other married couples purchase cars?

Americans have solved this problem: husband and wife get their own cars.

It's my wife's own car all right (I don't need one luckily), so it could be pink for all I care. Just not cost too much to buy and maintain.
Pink Opel Astra F ...

klsallee wrote:

szocske wrote:

How do other married couples purchase cars?

Americans have solved this problem: husband and wife get their own cars.

Yes, they each have their own 8 litre gas guzzler, it was a nice planet while it lasted

szocske wrote:

.... it was a nice planet while it lasted

It's still a reasonably OK planet. 

It'll only be a better planet if those misguided folks in Europe refocus the huge amounts they want to collect in eco-taxes to improving the pollution standards of the developing world.  But what's the betting, eco-taxes just go into the general revenue pot? And are not applied for eco-improvements?

In other words, just another rip off tax.

fidobsa wrote:

they each have their own 8 litre gas guzzler

You mean of course the eight liter *SUV* gas guzzler. It can't just be a gas guzzler, it has to be a HUGE gas guzzler which can seat six or more, but never contains anyone but the driver. And they only reach eight liters fuel efficiency if the vehicle is going down hill with a stiff tail wind....

I think he meant 8 liter engine displacement :-)

In Hungary we measure fuel efficiency in liters of fuel consumed over 100 km distance so 8l/100km is not great but OK.
In the US they use miles/gallon to express fuel efficiency.

szocske wrote:

I think he meant 8 liter engine displacement :-)

Yes, things like the 10 cylinder Dodge Viper or Ram.

szocske wrote:

....In the US they use miles/gallon to express fuel efficiency.

In the good 'ol USA, they use US gallons (I think 6 pints) which is different to an Imperial gallon (definitely 8 pints) (as used in the UK and elsewhere). So it's important to remember that when being told fuel efficiency in MPG (miles per gallon). If you have a US car showing MPG, then it will look much more like a gas guzzler compared to a UK car - e.g. fewer miles per gallon (US).

szocske wrote:

I think he meant 8 liter engine displacement :-)

I hope you noted my entire post was ironical....

szocske wrote:

In Hungary we measure fuel efficiency in liters of fuel consumed over 100 km distance

Done actually that way in most of Continental Europe, not just Hungary.....

szocske wrote:

so 8l/100km is not great but OK.

Which would be 30MGP in the US. A matter of opinion if "okay" or not especially if that is the highway rate, which would put the city (i.e. most driving) into the lower 20's or high teens.

szocske wrote:

In the US they use miles/gallon to express fuel efficiency.

Thanks for the info. As an American, I would never have known that.......

fluffy2560 wrote:

In the good 'ol USA, they use US gallons (I think 6 pints)

Not quite. There are 8 US pints per US gallon. But a US pint is only 0.83 Imperial pints. Or 6.65 Imperial pints per US Gallon.

Both the US and the UK really need to convert fully to the metric system for all volume measures.

klsallee wrote:

fluffy2560 wrote:

In the good 'ol USA, they use US gallons (I think 6 pints)

Not quite. There are 8 US pints per US gallon. But a US pint is only 0.83 Imperial pints. Or 6.65 Imperial pints per US Gallon.

Both the US and the UK really need to convert fully to the metric system for all volume measures.

Ok, I was being approximate. The quick measure was always 0.8 US gallons to the imperial gallon. It's a dodgy business -  especially if you are filling up your US manufactured plane with fuel or checking how many quarts of oil are in the engine.

In the UK, we're fully metric and no-one really uses gallons now except in general speech. Gallons are customary measures and are not legally allowed to be used for selling most liquids (EU directive disallows it). Bizarrely, in the UK you can still buy a pint of beer and miles/yards are still in use for road measurements (signs) as there's a derogation for those.

Bit pointless really to use miles and yards for distance but metric measures for everything else.

Hi everybody,
I would like to buy a used vehicle in Hungary and then drive it home to the Czech republic (it is quite a special model that is rarely available elsewhere). Is this currently possible? Is it possible to arrange transit licence plates and insurance in one day?

Thank you for any hints.

Hi!

In theory that should be possible.

You should ask the seller to help you. What the owner needs to do is to un-register the car in hungary (for export) and this has to be noted in the vehicle registration papers.

Just then you can apply for "Z" Plates (export plates). You need an up to date sales contract in hungarian. Car papers, insurance etc.

On another note:

Some guys mentioned they want to get german export plates or 5 day plates to use on cars which are located outside germany. ITs not even possible to get export plates for cars outside germany and to use the 5 day plates for this matter is an illegal registration (illegale Fernzulassung).

http://www.transit-plate.com/

This page is funny... Yes its true these plates are valid in whole europe (if your car was last registered in germany). And even this is like semi legal because for export you should use export plates. Basically the 5 day plates are meant for transfering cars inside germany.

TornadoHH wrote:

... Basically the 5 day plates are meant for transfering cars inside germany.

I've seen plenty of cars driving around on these plates, usually outside of Germany enroute to somewhere else. 

To be honest, I think you could just get away with any old spare plates on a car, valid or invalid,  if you are transiting within the Schengen area. Of course, that would be illegal, especially without insurance but from the number of cars with odd plates I see driving around on transit routes, I'm pretty sure this is going on all the time.

BTW, anyone familiar with how to register a EC complaint LHD car in Hungary from say the UK. How difficult is it really for an amateur, even with language skills?

Yes you might or might not get away with it (there is no sticker on the car saying where its from). Having the plates and the car impounded if you have a bit of bad luck might be not so much fun. I know these german plates are used a lot. Thats exactly why many cities dont give them away so easily anymore. (and websites charging a lot of money for them)

BTW, anyone familiar with how to register a EC complaint LHD car in Hungary from say the UK. How difficult is it really for an amateur, even with language skills?

Didnt research that yet but sounds like a fun project Scooby or Skyline ?

Ehh wait a minute my mind tricked me into assuming you wrote RHD...

LHD should be quite doable i read some writeup in hungarian somewhere:

https://ugyintezes.magyarorszag.hu/ugye … topicissue


Let me know!

cheers,

André