to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

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#1 11 February 2012 20:45:14

me.expat
me.expat
Cairo

to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Hi everyone. Im new on this forum. I have been living in Cairo for over a year now- Nasr City. Please explain, advise, comment: why boys, mens (egyptians) behave in such a bad way once they see a foreigner? Im a woman and its really hard for me to walk on the street, im waring and hebhing in a proper way, unfortunately im blond- all people around stare on expats, men shout, harrase, talk to us and generaly seems to act in a primitive way. WHY?
Do you have any idea how to stop it, prevent this bad behaviour on the steet? Well the solution might not to go out alone at all? Dont egyptians feel ashamed one of each other cos of this problem? Some treatens ur sisters too!

#2 11 February 2012 21:59:11

dmx87

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

It cant be changed,well at least not in the near future.
The problem here is very,very deep in society..the way parents raise their children and because of the level of living.Of course not everyone here is like that,people who grew up in different areas and in good family is much different..you see them everyday,but you don't notice them ;)

#3 12 February 2012 09:37:25

Sheko0o
Sheko0o
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Hey!
I`m sorry you had to face such things, But I guess Egyptians are well known for each others I mean We don`t have exotic looks or Blondes , maybe rare lol , That`s why they stare at you, It`s like a White Man living in Let`s say for example Nigeria , wouldn`t they stare at him ? yes! not because he is white but because he is just different ,

Just stay in nice streets where shops and people are around , try to wear simple clothes not tight ones , if you believe that your blonde hair is a reason you can dye your hair or something :) , Btw it`s not just you , it happens to cute Egyptian girls as well :)

& Well said dmx87 , not all of us are that way though..

#4 12 February 2012 15:39:41

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Well as dmx87 said : not every one is like that!

Meanwhile

I can say I have witnessed men being quite forward with western women. I would not always class it as harassment, Egyptians have a persistence when it comes to all foreigners male or female. I am a male and I see the same thing with even local females around. It is more to do with the expectation that you have more money as a foreigner than sex.

That said, there is also a general assumption, that Western or Westernised women are more open-minded to casual relationships and are therefore pursued more vigorously. By dressing provocatively (and I mean by the local standards) you should expect to attract attention.

There are many posts and comments about the harassment of Western women on many sites and forums but what is often not explained is that many stories of holiday romances have helped to fuel the notion that sex can be gained through a relationship with a western woman much easier than a local woman. Amongst the young unmarried males here in Cairo that is an attractive prospect, (Among the older married ones too) as society here is generally a lot more conservative than western countries about sex outside marriage, at least in open.

My experiences offer this advice generally.

* Dress in an appropriate manner. Unless in a private hotel, club or bar, try to cover up to the knees and do not show cleavage. Scarves are worn by many Egyptian women but equally many do not.

* Say no sternly. If you understood the culture here you would realise that Egyptians flirt, both men and women but not as openly as westerners are used to. A lot of the flirting is done in conversation and gesture. Egyptian women like to play coy and shy and this is regarded as a respectable way of not quite saying no but not seeming to interested. Because of this Egyptian men have become accustomed to persisting a little. Most Egyptian men will quickly run away if you quite sternly say No. Please leave me alone. Especially in public where someone else may hear.

* Use your intuition. A lot of Egyptians show a friendless that westerners may find unusual or exaggerated. Sometimes this can be mistaken for flirting. Use your intuition to decide if a man is trying his luck - if you feel uncomfortable then you are probably right. Also, most muslim men (I am one so I can say from experience) would not be so forward as to touch a woman stranger or embrace her, so if a man holds your hand, or puts his arm around you or strokes your hair, chances are he is up to no good.

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

I hope this helps a little. Despite all the negative comments I read online about Cairo. It really is a great place to discover and enjoy. I mean about the pollution, racism, cheating and traffic too, but a bit of cultural understanding and effort to avoid the bad things will really help you.

On the other hand

Nowadays weird strange people are down! So even if you are wearing Hijab, scarf you will be teased or even niqab , borqoa you will even listen some flirting words!

#5 12 February 2012 19:45:28

Magnum Psyche

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

me.expat wrote:

Hi everyone. Im new on this forum. I have been living in Cairo for over a year now- Nasr City. Please explain, advise, comment: why boys, mens (egyptians) behave in such a bad way once they see a foreigner? Im a woman and its really hard for me to walk on the street, im waring and hebhing in a proper way, unfortunately im blond- all people around stare on expats, men shout, harrase, talk to us and generaly seems to act in a primitive way. WHY?
Do you have any idea how to stop it, prevent this bad behaviour on the steet? Well the solution might not to go out alone at all? Dont egyptians feel ashamed one of each other cos of this problem? Some treatens ur sisters too!

Answering your last question...Yes, many Egyptians feel ashamed ofcourse.

About people doing this... you have to know that as they are suffering from low standard of living they also suffer from sexual suppression the other side of the coin, imagine when they see a blonde on reality not on TV :) !

Ok.....The Solution: Nasr City is loaded with teenagers, work-less people, and Asians as foreigners.
I advise you to move instantly to places like Maadi, Heliopolis, zamalek, ....

Good Luck ...

#6 12 February 2012 20:57:33

me.expat
me.expat
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

thanks everyone for some explanations and comments. Till now my only sollution is to go out with husband/ a girlfriend and to start looking for a house in a better area (which won't be heliopolis) as situation in there is exacly the same.
I can understand im being harassed by a lower class gys, but for God sake- in City Stars? i happents too. Believe me or not boys makes comments even when im out with husband. Tell me pls what's up with this idiotic word in arabic when someone sees me? Its 'EH DAH?' i know the meaning but its so rude saying so when a men walks with a woman! I have never get out on the steet with even half naked leg or arm, never tide clothes, no transparents. At winter only my face is not covered:)
What i hate most- that higher class agree for such behaviour and noone tries to do something against it. Society simply accept it.

Last edited by me.expat (12 February 2012 21:00:08)

#7 12 February 2012 21:15:11

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

In maadi,rehab,zamalek its more less
But even if you moved its not the final solution!
Even if with husband or alone or with a group
You will face the same
You said it simply ( society )

Good luck
Be safe all.

Last edited by don moe (12 February 2012 21:20:53)

#8 12 February 2012 21:29:31

dmx87

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

As i said nothing can be done about it.For example you see some girls in "some country* who is lets say do "dirty things" everyone know who she is and what she does,but is anyone trying to stop it? no society simply accepts it ;) on both sides here in Egypt and "other country" everyone sees it,but no one is doing anything I'm not trying to defend or accuse Egypt or "other countries" I'm just sharing my opinion..

Is your husband Egyptian? i cant believe that he cant solve that problem))
Usually the local men will make evil face and walk beside you and trust me if he look evil enough,no one will say anything to you,or about you e.t.c. ))

Last edited by dmx87 (12 February 2012 21:36:36)

#9 13 February 2012 06:52:00

Sheko0o
Sheko0o
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

It`s different , In here when guys say such words and it could be about you , no one can blame them , because if even someone tried he would say I wasn`t saying about her , you know!!

Just ignore .. and it happens even with Egyptians even if they aren`t cute enough lol :)

#10 24 February 2012 17:20:28

AmericanQueen
AmericanQueen
Alexandria

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

so sad but if they bother you i would tell them god see all and all your nasty behavior ... GOD SEE ALL ...i GIVE THEM A LOOK THAT PUTS FEAR IN THEM and believe this it is not only exprat they do to egyptain woman to , i said to would you like if someone said this to your mother or sister ...

#11 26 February 2012 23:07:49

Gamall
Gamall
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Salam Alikum,

For some points i agree totally with you Guys , But as some egyptian Guys said its not the general thing here in Egypt ,and its not about your looks or that you wear something unlike other egyptian Women but its about their sick mentality , im an egyptian and i have so many Foriegners who are my friends believe it or not i have never encountered this before maybe because they usually walk by me and then no one bothers them as they are with an egyptian , but try not to be alone in an area that doesnt have big foriegner base , or people who are not from Egypt , for example like the guys said Zamalek , Haram , Maadi , Rehab , October

and on behalf of the majority of the egyptian society im sorry for what you faced .

#12 21 June 2012 12:58:57

Mido84
Mido84
Alexandria

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Unfortunately what you said is true. However, this happens due to lack of education and bad behavior. Most of guys who act this way barely make their living for the day so they do not bother about feeling ashamed. As a matter of fact we Egyptian educated and behaved guys are the ones who feel ashamed of these acts as it makes people assume that all Egyptian guys are like that. Its a core issue in a society that has fell into apathy and curing it comes by taking its roots out i.e. poverty and low level of education. To avoid that you should consider the places you take a walk in for walking in some districts here is more like walking in an African American ghetto if you know what I mean....be safe and take care.

#13 21 June 2012 16:05:31

meems74
meems74
New York

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

AmericanQueen wrote:

so sad but if they bother you i would tell them god see all and all your nasty behavior ... GOD SEE ALL ...i GIVE THEM A LOOK THAT PUTS FEAR IN THEM and believe this it is not only exprat they do to egyptain woman to , i said to would you like if someone said this to your mother or sister ...

they have no respect is what their problem is. If they feared anything then they should fear God but they don't even acknowledge that or they simply and conveniently forget God. they also have this image that foreign women are all about sex and they feel that they have some entitlement to this action. they don't stop to think that "hey this foreign woman might actually be a muslim woman" or "hey, this woman might actually be respectable and not want my filthy comments made to her" or even better yet, "hey, I need to respect myself and not act like a rabid dog in heat"..their brain can only function on one issue at a time..and that's sex. it's disgusting, appauling and just absolutely disgraceful. There are so many issues here I just can't figure out where to begin..it's a hot, nasty mess

#14 22 June 2012 03:45:18

amr_moro
amr_moro
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

dear all, I am very sad while I am writing this answer, as I am confessing that the Egyptian men are gone bad, before the revolution we heard about harassment once in Down Town area during the feast.
before the revolution people used to respect each other, but now there is no respect.
this will take time till the good people decide to talk and stop these stupid actions, when I see a man trying to annoy a girl in the street, I try to say to him stop doing this, I hope every one in Egypt do this, so people will be ashamed or at least they will be afraid.

I am sorry for this stupid situation and I hope it will never happen to you again, specially that I love Italy and I hope they will win the Euro 2012.

#15 29 June 2012 13:54:34

erikabrio
erikabrio
Hurghada

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

If it is the same people in an area where you live, call the tourist police, who will teach them a lesson. After that, they will bow every time you pass by.

#16 29 June 2012 14:23:41

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

erikabrio wrote:

If it is the same people in an area where you live, call the tourist police, who will teach them a lesson. After that, they will bow every time you pass by.

actually you are right
but meanwhile some expats are here without a legal visa,or the visa they hold are expired and it will make a lots of troubles if the tourism police asked for an I.D or a valid visa

#17 29 June 2012 17:23:26

me.expat
me.expat
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

So the tourist police srill exist in cairo?? Sure i ahve visa, but tell me guys does really tourist police make any if i ask for help?

#18 30 June 2012 14:45:41

chocolata
chocolata
Rehab city

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

don moe wrote:

Well as dmx87 said : not every one is like that!

Meanwhile

I can say I have witnessed men being quite forward with western women. I would not always class it as harassment, Egyptians have a persistence when it comes to all foreigners male or female. I am a male and I see the same thing with even local females around. It is more to do with the expectation that you have more money as a foreigner than sex.

That said, there is also a general assumption, that Western or Westernised women are more open-minded to casual relationships and are therefore pursued more vigorously. By dressing provocatively (and I mean by the local standards) you should expect to attract attention.

There are many posts and comments about the harassment of Western women on many sites and forums but what is often not explained is that many stories of holiday romances have helped to fuel the notion that sex can be gained through a relationship with a western woman much easier than a local woman. Amongst the young unmarried males here in Cairo that is an attractive prospect, (Among the older married ones too) as society here is generally a lot more conservative than western countries about sex outside marriage, at least in open.

My experiences offer this advice generally.

* Dress in an appropriate manner. Unless in a private hotel, club or bar, try to cover up to the knees and do not show cleavage. Scarves are worn by many Egyptian women but equally many do not.

* Say no sternly. If you understood the culture here you would realise that Egyptians flirt, both men and women but not as openly as westerners are used to. A lot of the flirting is done in conversation and gesture. Egyptian women like to play coy and shy and this is regarded as a respectable way of not quite saying no but not seeming to interested. Because of this Egyptian men have become accustomed to persisting a little. Most Egyptian men will quickly run away if you quite sternly say No. Please leave me alone. Especially in public where someone else may hear.

* Use your intuition. A lot of Egyptians show a friendless that westerners may find unusual or exaggerated. Sometimes this can be mistaken for flirting. Use your intuition to decide if a man is trying his luck - if you feel uncomfortable then you are probably right. Also, most muslim men (I am one so I can say from experience) would not be so forward as to touch a woman stranger or embrace her, so if a man holds your hand, or puts his arm around you or strokes your hair, chances are he is up to no good.

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

I hope this helps a little. Despite all the negative comments I read online about Cairo. It really is a great place to discover and enjoy. I mean about the pollution, racism, cheating and traffic too, but a bit of cultural understanding and effort to avoid the bad things will really help you.

On the other hand

Nowadays weird strange people are down! So even if you are wearing Hijab, scarf you will be teased or even niqab , borqoa you will even listen some flirting words!

Well said Don

#19 01 July 2012 11:04:04

biffy
biffy
Cairo, 6th October

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Hi
I can understand your reluctance to go out!!
Most foriegn women who walk on the street - and trust me you don't have to blond or wearing tight clothing - are subjected to this kind of abuse and harrassment - and you don't have to be walking. I drive and still get subjected to this kind of harrassment - by other car drivers, boys in the back of pick-ups etc.
And no I am not wearing tight clothes showing all my cleavage - but I am notcitably foriegn!
Local EGyptian ladies are subjected to thid kind of harrassment  - but they are not so vulgar and not so obvious about it.
But what surprises me is the age of some of the boys who are doing it - they are so young to be having this kind of response.
And FYI - I am british and I can honestly say - apart from a wholf whistle or 2, or a 'hello darlin'' - I have never experienced this level of harrassment before.
Even my daughter is subjected to it and she is 11 years old for god's sake - it is revolting!!

I have been coming to EGypt for over 12 years (I am married to an EGyptian) and yes it has got worse since last year - but I don't think it will be going away either very quickly.

ANd as for going out with my EGyptian husband - we do frequently - but thankfully my Husband doesn't hear half the comments, or if he does we say no I'm not sure what he said!! Getting into a big fight (as you can imagine what would happen) isn't worth it - these 'people' sre not worth it.

But we wnt to the Pyramids - with my paretns who were visting recently - and we nearly got into 2 very big fights with 2 groups of guys. One group certainly a little older - amazingly vulgar to my daughter - with facial expressions to match.  The second group - my husband overheard the comments they were making to me and my daughter - and went mad.  It was only due to a local on a camel stepping in that the situation didn't become worse!!
My Mum and Dad who are in their late 60's couldn't believe it - expecially when we translated what they ahd said - the other half they knew becuase a facila expression si the same the world over - and half of the talking was in english.

ANd call what police!?
Are they any better - njo not really, will they do anything - no, and if you are very lucky and they do you have the potential to spend hours in the local nick with everyone staring!!

ANd do you knowing something - I lived in the UAE for a number of years and they mostly stare - and to a certain extent you can ignore it - but here I wish it would stop at just staring.
And if they had a fear of god - they would lower their eyes anyway!!!

#20 01 July 2012 11:10:56

biffy
biffy
Cairo, 6th October

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

I forgot!!!

Dressing provacatively - especially byt eh local standards!!
Made me laugh - I find myself commenting endlessly on how can the EGyptian girls / young ldaies wear clothes so tight (tighter than myself and many of my firends have ever worn) and wear a hijab!!

Boobs on display (albeit covered by some very tight lycra) the same with the jeans - 'scuse me!!!

I often comment to my husband that I don't know what this is.  The local young ladies here seem to have taken all that is tight and to be honest 'bad' about western dressing and are wearing it with a Hijab (or with a tight lycra bodysuit underneath it ) - I am amazed sometimes at the sights I see.
And to be honest many girls / young ladies I know from my home country - wouldn't wear stuff that was so tight!!
To say my Husband is gobsmacked sometimes at the sights we see - is an understatement!

#21 01 July 2012 14:05:14

MrsIsmail
MrsIsmail
Ismailia

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Biffy I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you say.

Especially your second post on Egyptian girls. When I first came to live in Cairo in 2010, it made me laugh the sight of hijabi girls in clothes so tight that you can see every shapely lump and bump on their body. While I, hijab free and in 'skinny' jeans, but always a tunic style top and scarf to cover bottom and chest.

These girls forget that wearing hijab is more than covering hair... but I guess they only wear it as their fathers wouldn't let them out otherwise!

I also feel that the harassment has got worse and assaults are more common. But what needs to happen is the Egyptian girls need to speak out about it... not just foreigners/tourists.

As with everything about this country it all boils down to EDUCATION! Its not to late to improve the minds of the next generation... but then I'm saying this as an optimistic person :)

#22 01 July 2012 16:08:06

meems74
meems74
New York

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

biffy wrote:

I forgot!!!

Dressing provacatively - especially byt eh local standards!!
Made me laugh - I find myself commenting endlessly on how can the EGyptian girls / young ldaies wear clothes so tight (tighter than myself and many of my firends have ever worn) and wear a hijab!!

Boobs on display (albeit covered by some very tight lycra) the same with the jeans - 'scuse me!!!

I often comment to my husband that I don't know what this is.  The local young ladies here seem to have taken all that is tight and to be honest 'bad' about western dressing and are wearing it with a Hijab (or with a tight lycra bodysuit underneath it ) - I am amazed sometimes at the sights I see.
And to be honest many girls / young ladies I know from my home country - wouldn't wear stuff that was so tight!!
To say my Husband is gobsmacked sometimes at the sights we see - is an understatement!

thank you Biffy, I couldn't have said better myself.

I've seen clothes so tight they look like they were painted on their skin rather than worn....so please don't catergorize this with foreign women only..take a look at your own women first.

#23 02 July 2012 13:43:08

AmericanQueen
AmericanQueen
Alexandria

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

hahahah it always amused me to , what is the point other then your having a bad hair day  lol they dress so tight the only thing is if you where in a cold climate that you would cover and here it is so hot and the cloths are so tight and then there head is cover what is the point to sweat more hahahah

#24 04 July 2012 14:04:42

Geely

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

don moe wrote:

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

That is terrible that you think like that!! So a girl or a woman can't go out by themselves??

For all the men reading this: If you hear a guy making stupid comments to a girl or woman, do you tell him that what he says and his behavior is very bad??

My daughter (she has an Egyptian father) has just turned 16 and she gets comments (of course behind her back!) of: ya moza, where will you sleep tonight (in Arabic), where are you from etc! If she walks only for 5 minutes on the street she will hear maybe 15 comments!!! And because she understands Arabic it is terrible to her, she is just a child!! We are now in Hurghada, but in Cairo it is worse!
Her father tells her, just don't listen to them, they are just dogs barking. Yes that can be a way of denying such things happen, but next time they bite if nobody does anything about it!

A quote:

“silence is always a sign of consent."

from: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/46800.aspx

Other article about sexual harassment:
http://natashajsmith.wordpress.com/2012 … e-it-stop/

http://jonamorem.blogspot.com/2012/06/d … women.html

We moved to Egypt because, according to her father, it would be much safer for a girl in Egypt.... (as nearly everyone in Egypt has a religion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RGtkwRMqU

Last edited by Geely (04 July 2012 15:38:37)

#26 05 July 2012 11:34:46

aligirl
aligirl
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Geely wrote:

don moe wrote:

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

That is terrible that you think like that!! So a girl or a woman can't go out by themselves??

For all the men reading this: If you hear a guy making stupid comments to a girl or woman, do you tell him that what he says and his behavior is very bad??

My daughter (she has an Egyptian father) has just turned 16 and she gets comments (of course behind her back!) of: ya moza, where will you sleep tonight (in Arabic), where are you from etc! If she walks only for 5 minutes on the street she will hear maybe 15 comments!!! And because she understands Arabic it is terrible to her, she is just a child!! We are now in Hurghada, but in Cairo it is worse!
Her father tells her, just don't listen to them, they are just dogs barking. Yes that can be a way of denying such things happen, but next time they bite if nobody does anything about it!

A quote:

“silence is always a sign of consent."

from: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/46800.aspx

Other article about sexual harassment:
http://natashajsmith.wordpress.com/2012 … e-it-stop/

http://jonamorem.blogspot.com/2012/06/d … women.html

We moved to Egypt because, according to her father, it would be much safer for a girl in Egypt.... (as nearly everyone in Egypt has a religion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RGtkwRMqU

Thanx Geely for the articles ;)

#27 05 July 2012 12:12:55

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

chocolata wrote:

don moe wrote:

Well as dmx87 said : not every one is like that!

Meanwhile

I can say I have witnessed men being quite forward with western women. I would not always class it as harassment, Egyptians have a persistence when it comes to all foreigners male or female. I am a male and I see the same thing with even local females around. It is more to do with the expectation that you have more money as a foreigner than sex.

That said, there is also a general assumption, that Western or Westernised women are more open-minded to casual relationships and are therefore pursued more vigorously. By dressing provocatively (and I mean by the local standards) you should expect to attract attention.

There are many posts and comments about the harassment of Western women on many sites and forums but what is often not explained is that many stories of holiday romances have helped to fuel the notion that sex can be gained through a relationship with a western woman much easier than a local woman. Amongst the young unmarried males here in Cairo that is an attractive prospect, (Among the older married ones too) as society here is generally a lot more conservative than western countries about sex outside marriage, at least in open.

My experiences offer this advice generally.

* Dress in an appropriate manner. Unless in a private hotel, club or bar, try to cover up to the knees and do not show cleavage. Scarves are worn by many Egyptian women but equally many do not.

* Say no sternly. If you understood the culture here you would realise that Egyptians flirt, both men and women but not as openly as westerners are used to. A lot of the flirting is done in conversation and gesture. Egyptian women like to play coy and shy and this is regarded as a respectable way of not quite saying no but not seeming to interested. Because of this Egyptian men have become accustomed to persisting a little. Most Egyptian men will quickly run away if you quite sternly say No. Please leave me alone. Especially in public where someone else may hear.

* Use your intuition. A lot of Egyptians show a friendless that westerners may find unusual or exaggerated. Sometimes this can be mistaken for flirting. Use your intuition to decide if a man is trying his luck - if you feel uncomfortable then you are probably right. Also, most muslim men (I am one so I can say from experience) would not be so forward as to touch a woman stranger or embrace her, so if a man holds your hand, or puts his arm around you or strokes your hair, chances are he is up to no good.

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

I hope this helps a little. Despite all the negative comments I read online about Cairo. It really is a great place to discover and enjoy. I mean about the pollution, racism, cheating and traffic too, but a bit of cultural understanding and effort to avoid the bad things will really help you.

On the other hand

Nowadays weird strange people are down! So even if you are wearing Hijab, scarf you will be teased or even niqab , borqoa you will even listen some flirting words!

Well said Don

Thanks :)

#28 05 July 2012 12:15:31

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

aligirl wrote:

Geely wrote:

don moe wrote:

* Don't travel alone. Sounds sinister, but it\'s not. Cairo is generally quite safe. A woman on her own here is seen in two ways generally. Either you are \'open-minded\' or a \'damsel in distress\'. The first will mean you can handle yourself and therefore don\'t mind a little flirting or \'harassment\'. The second means you \'need\' a man to assist you. Either way you\'re better off with a friend.

That is terrible that you think like that!! So a girl or a woman can't go out by themselves??

For all the men reading this: If you hear a guy making stupid comments to a girl or woman, do you tell him that what he says and his behavior is very bad??

My daughter (she has an Egyptian father) has just turned 16 and she gets comments (of course behind her back!) of: ya moza, where will you sleep tonight (in Arabic), where are you from etc! If she walks only for 5 minutes on the street she will hear maybe 15 comments!!! And because she understands Arabic it is terrible to her, she is just a child!! We are now in Hurghada, but in Cairo it is worse!
Her father tells her, just don't listen to them, they are just dogs barking. Yes that can be a way of denying such things happen, but next time they bite if nobody does anything about it!

A quote:

“silence is always a sign of consent."

from: http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/46800.aspx

Other article about sexual harassment:
http://natashajsmith.wordpress.com/2012 … e-it-stop/

http://jonamorem.blogspot.com/2012/06/d … women.html

We moved to Egypt because, according to her father, it would be much safer for a girl in Egypt.... (as nearly everyone in Egypt has a religion)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72RGtkwRMqU

Thanx Geely for the articles ;)

Maybe both of you SHOULD read exactly what I wrote,as I mean nowadays only due for what's happening in streets!

Enjoy :D

#29 05 July 2012 12:18:46

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

MrsIsmail wrote:

Biffy I couldn't agree more with EVERYTHING you say.

Especially your second post on Egyptian girls. When I first came to live in Cairo in 2010, it made me laugh the sight of hijabi girls in clothes so tight that you can see every shapely lump and bump on their body. While I, hijab free and in 'skinny' jeans, but always a tunic style top and scarf to cover bottom and chest.

These girls forget that wearing hijab is more than covering hair... but I guess they only wear it as their fathers wouldn't let them out otherwise!

I also feel that the harassment has got worse and assaults are more common. But what needs to happen is the Egyptian girls need to speak out about it... not just foreigners/tourists.

As with everything about this country it all boils down to EDUCATION! Its not to late to improve the minds of the next generation... but then I'm saying this as an optimistic person :)

Well said,especially about the Education issue.

#30 05 July 2012 12:34:21

layla1313
layla1313
Hurghada

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

The girls who wear hijab and tight clothes are rebelling against the system. I blame the parents(especially the mothers) for allowing them to do it. I find the egyptian mothers are sadly lacking in parenting skills and let their kids run around with no discipline. theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

I do agree its not as safe to walk alone, a friend male or female is more comfortable but you know, thats anywhere I'm american and its not safe either to walk the streetsin USA, for example, many time i had a car with men follow me as I walked, cat calling( and the fear is more because u can get grabbed, in egypt its not likely) so its not just egypt. the world is unsafe period and any foreigner should consider this. why should egypt be any different? not everyone is religious to fear god. It doesnt matter how we dress but it does invite trouble from far awayif we are almost naked to local standards. and also how we carry ourselves as women.. walking like a cheap tart with hips swaying will get attention even with total concealment. the most precious gifts are wrapped. :-)

#31 05 July 2012 12:37:52

layla1313
layla1313
Hurghada

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

and for the men harassing women i agree, good men need to speak up and smack them. I've seen it happen actually. the young boys need their father to teach them good manners. the Qur'an teaches to treat women softly and not disrespect I just like to say Islam is not the problem its lack of teaching.

#32 05 July 2012 12:44:46

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

layla1313 wrote:

and for the men harassing women i agree, good men need to speak up and smack them. I've seen it happen actually. the young boys need their father to teach them good manners. the Qur'an teaches to treat women softly and not disrespect I just like to say Islam is not the problem its lack of teaching.

:D its true that every one will smack them plus its forbidden in Islam!

And I guess those men must replace them self and think of what could happen if his sister,daughter or even mother was in the same situation!
How would he act?

Last edited by don moe (05 July 2012 12:47:12)

#33 05 July 2012 13:01:01

layla1313
layla1313
Hurghada

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

yes you are right in Islam if a man harass a woman it will surely happen to his mother or sister or wife as a punishment and to show them the way to be right. so i am told. and for the non religious this is known as "karma".




don moe wrote:

layla1313 wrote:

and for the men harassing women i agree, good men need to speak up and smack them. I've seen it happen actually. the young boys need their father to teach them good manners. the Qur'an teaches to treat women softly and not disrespect I just like to say Islam is not the problem its lack of teaching.

:D its true that every one will smack them plus its forbidden in Islam!

And I guess those men must replace them self and think of what could happen if his sister,daughter or even mother was in the same situation!
How would he act?

#34 05 July 2012 14:38:09

aligirl
aligirl
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

layla1313 wrote:

The girls who wear hijab and tight clothes are rebelling against the system. I blame the parents(especially the mothers) for allowing them to do it. I find the egyptian mothers are sadly lacking in parenting skills and let their kids run around with no discipline. theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

I dont understand, are the girls guilty of herrasment because they are wearing tight clothes? In Spain we wear tight clothes and nothing happens, because there are laws to protect us, the problem are not the parents! 

I think it is great that the egyptian girls, eventhough they decide to wear hiyabs, decide to keep their identity by being free to wear what they choose to, tight or not tight, it shouldn´t be any of our business.

layla1313 wrote:

I do agree its not as safe to walk alone, a friend male or female is more comfortable but you know, thats anywhere I'm american and its not safe either to walk the streetsin USA, for example, many time i had a car with men follow me as I walked, cat calling( and the fear is more because u can get grabbed, in egypt its not likely) so its not just egypt. the world is unsafe period and any foreigner should consider this. why should egypt be any different? not everyone is religious to fear god. It doesnt matter how we dress but it does invite trouble from far awayif we are almost naked to local standards. and also how we carry ourselves as women.. walking like a cheap tart with hips swaying will get attention even with total concealment. the most precious gifts are wrapped. :-)

I don´t agree, why women can not walk alone, because of the sick minded men? This is not normal, i´m sorry. And I assure you, you may walk in a lot of countries alone!! I never had to walk with anyone in order to feel safe- i still dont do in Cairo- this should not be necessary, what we have to do is punish the herrasers and not the herrased.

#35 05 July 2012 14:44:17

aligirl
aligirl
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

don moe wrote:

Maybe both of you SHOULD read exactly what I wrote,as I mean nowadays only due for what's happening in streets!

Enjoy :D

Hey Don Moe,

maybe you missunderstood me, I was thanking Geely for the articles she posted. I found them very touching and think everyone should read them in order to take consciuosness about such a terrible issue and change the current situation for the people of Egypt.

Maa salaaama ;)

#36 05 July 2012 14:47:54

aligirl
aligirl
Cairo

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

layla1313 wrote:

theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

What is not Islamic at all is to JUDGE like you just did. The best hiyab, is the one we wear in our hearts.

#37 05 July 2012 15:15:21

don moe
don moe
Cairo,Maadi

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

aligirl wrote:

don moe wrote:

Maybe both of you SHOULD read exactly what I wrote,as I mean nowadays only due for what's happening in streets!

Enjoy :D

Hey Don Moe,

maybe you missunderstood me, I was thanking Geely for the articles she posted. I found them very touching and think everyone should read them in order to take consciuosness about such a terrible issue and change the current situation for the people of Egypt.

Maa salaaama ;)

No problem ;)

#38 12 July 2012 13:34:34

nashwakhairy

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

aligirl wrote:

layla1313 wrote:

theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

What is not Islamic at all is to JUDGE like you just did. The best hiyab, is the one we wear in our hearts.

Thank U.

#39 13 July 2012 14:49:44

MrsIsmail
MrsIsmail
Ismailia

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

aligirl wrote:

layla1313 wrote:

The girls who wear hijab and tight clothes are rebelling against the system. I blame the parents(especially the mothers) for allowing them to do it. I find the egyptian mothers are sadly lacking in parenting skills and let their kids run around with no discipline. theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

I dont understand, are the girls guilty of herrasment because they are wearing tight clothes? In Spain we wear tight clothes and nothing happens, because there are laws to protect us, the problem are not the parents! 

I think it is great that the egyptian girls, eventhough they decide to wear hiyabs, decide to keep their identity by being free to wear what they choose to, tight or not tight, it shouldn´t be any of our business.

No I wasn't judging Egyptian girls, just comparing.
Many people say that foreigners 'ask' to be harassed by what they are wearing, meaning that by showing a bit of arm or leg skin equals the right to be harassed on the street. Speaking from personal experience when in Cairo in 2010, I wore a loose skirt that fell below the knee and always covered my chest with a scarf and my top sleeves went to the elbow. I would have Egyptian friends question what I was wearing "oh thats not a good idea". But when I pointed out the a hijab girls in the street, albeit covered head to toe in clothing, you could still see every curve of their body. And they had no answer for it!
So who has the right to question which is better?!

You can see from my picture that I wear hijab and I was a Muslim then as I am now, and I wear a hijab most probably for the same reasons as those girls! (I was being funny with the father comment, its more to do with Islamic society)

The simple fact is no one has the right to harass and no one deserves to be harassed - whether in burka or bikini!

The people that do it should be ashamed of themselves and women shouldn't tolerate it and men shouldn't allow it if their ears hear it!

Islam teaches respect and many people need to be reminded of it.

As for the Egyptian mothers comment from Layla... I'm not generalising but from watching my 2 sister in laws over the past 18th months I sadly have to agree with her. Its hard for me to witness such lazy parenting and the 4 children, all under the age of 6, are allowed to run riot. For example: the thing I hate most about Egypt is all the rubbish ruining this beautiful country. I believe kids need to be taught to put rubbish in the bin/trash can. When I watch my nieces and nephew throw their crisp/chips packets etc on the floor of their own home, then how can you ask them to not do it outside? Respect and care needs to start at home for it to then be applied to the outside world. :(

At least I feel like I'm doing my bit for Egypt when I am at work and teach all the kids in kindergarten :D

#40 13 July 2012 15:44:16

layla1313
layla1313
Hurghada

Re: to egyptians and all expats! lets fight it

Im not judging.. its my opinion.. much different than judging. also in the Qur'an it says women should wear loose fitting garments as not to expose the shape of our bodies. that is the law of Allah and can not be mistaken otherwise.





nashwakhairy wrote:

aligirl wrote:

layla1313 wrote:

theyre lazy! its also not islamic at all.

What is not Islamic at all is to JUDGE like you just did. The best hiyab, is the one we wear in our hearts.

Thank U.

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