Buying property in Bulgaria

HiJernina
I just bought property here along with thousands of others and had no problems. I know a minority of people particularly in the resort areas of Varna and burgas have had bad experiences but don't know if thats where you were.
Maybe you can elaborate so other can benifit from your ordeal?
Ron

Sorry, I don't agree with you,

there are a lot of forums and people do go to the right one to find out about a country and do find some info about buying a house without a real estatem a lot of us did and others can, if you go like a village you just go to the mayor's office and with a phrase book you ask if there are houses for sale and in the forums people recomment lawyers and helpers.
We did it others can and we got a lot of people who came to us as guests and bought from our neighbors

In Bulgaria in the villages there is no work. So when there is a oppertunity to work on a property everybody is builder even master like they say ! So a lot of Real Estates use this people to renovate houses and pay them 25 leiva a day !! So dont complain that the job is not weldone ! Ask first to see some renovations that the have maked before and talk with the owners !
                             Axinia

It's true Axenia, that's why we used them only one week and my husband did everything by himself using a neighbor just for help.

It's amazing that we have expat-blog.com , fur sure it will help a lot of people in the future , but still many will be cheated by people who only like to make money and dont have any respect for others !

tnx brother but I want to buy land inbulgaria

It seems to me that this thread has departed so far from its original intent as to be useless. The administrator was looking for a check list of what to look for when buying a house and tips on the PROCESS.

As someone currently involved in that process I know a few things I would like to understand better but they are not about choosing a lawyer or whether I need a company.

I'd like to know:

1. How and where can one discover who owns a particular house or piece of land and when it is part of a deceased's estate how does one discover who the heirs are?

2. Where doe one go to find out the officially recognised boundaries of the property?

3. How does one go about obtaining a tax number and where oes one go to find the office which issues them?

4. What is the local planning office called?

5. Which ofice issues building permits; what is its name?

Before anyone rushes into print to tell me I need a solicitor please remember I didn't ask about whether I need professional advice I asked five specific questions, the answers to which would be of great help to many people so if you know lets hear it, otherwise remember silence is golden.

1. How and where can one discover who owns a particular house or piece of land and when it is part of a deceased's estate how does one discover who the heirs are?
-It's the lawyer's job to find that out


2. Where doe one go to find out the officially recognised boundaries of the property?

- the municipality

3. How does one go about obtaining a tax number and where oes one go to find the office which issues them?

What tax number?

4. What is the local planning office called?
5. Which ofice issues building permits; what is its name?
- The architect of the municipality issue the planning permit so it's in the municipality that you need to go or use an independent architect who does everything for you

the best thing to do for a lawyer is to ask the people in this forum or another who live in the area where you're buying

Thank you for attempting to answer the questions but I do not agree that anything involved in house purchase is the lawyer's job. It is the responsibility of the buyer to find out all that is needed to know about a house purchase. A Lawyer is merely an agent. If he can find something out then so can any private individual which is why I asked where it is possible to find the information.

I am aware that planning and not surprised that building control is also a function of the Municipality but in Bulgaria they have Bulgarian names which do not necessarily correspond with our names which is why I asked what they are called.

I have read somewhere that it is necessary to obtain a number from the Revenue authorities when purchasing a house in Bulgaria, as it is in every other European country which I know. Usually, there is a local tax office which issues the numbers on the completion of a form what I am trying to discover is what the office is called in Bulgaria so that I can discover where that office is for my area.

Perhaps I did not ask my questions clearly enough before so I hope my intent is now more obvious. I have no wish to enter a debate on whether I need a lawyer, for all you know perhaps I am a lawyer or even an architect in my own country. I am trying to obtain simple answers to simple questions.

i did read everything but let me tell you that I bought 3 houses and sold 11 to Brits so I think I do know what i'm talking about

I have read somewhere that it is necessary to obtain a number from the Revenue authorities when purchasing a house in Bulgaria, as it is in every other European country which I know. Usually, there is a local tax office which issues the numbers on the completion of a form what I am trying to discover is what the office is called in Bulgaria so that I can discover where that office is for my area.

there is no such a thing, when you purchase a house you just need to give your passport, in the old time we had to have a company but it's over and now it's very easy , JUST A PASSPORT

Ah, so now you are an estate agent!

There is nothing to be gained by ranting. I did not say you do not know what you are talking about nor did I say that you did not read everything. What I said was that I clearly had not made myself clear.

I have now found a very useful source of information from the Bulgarian government, in English so I need not trouble you further as I imagine they know what they are talking about.

Ah, so now you are an estate agent!

I'm definitlly not.

I helped Brits from forums and friends to buy from the Bulgarians because we got ripped off by the real estate agents, it was just help and no gain what's over

Hi all,

So as you know.. some off topic posts have been removed from this discussion

Can we please calm down and keep in mind that our main aim and ambition on Expat.com is to help people who want to live abroad, wherever they are in the world, and wherever they would like to live

Lets try to keep up the spirit of mutual help.. and be more positive please

Thank you

Maximilien

For the benefit of of all who have offered a positive contribution to this thread may I quote from the Bulgarian governemnet website http://www.property-in-bulgaria.bg/ which was establshed last year to provide a guide, in English for those proposing to purchase a property in Bulgaria "You would also have to be registered and acquire a Bulstat number – this is a reference number."

This government website answer the original point of this post in as full a fashion as one might reasonably expect and could be the bible used by any English speaker to ensure an orderly and safe purchase of property in Bulgaria.

It also provides an enquiry service to which I plan to address my five queries and hopefully find the answers from what must be the defining source.

Check check double check and trust your first instincts....dont be woooed by the dream

Hi! If you need a help in Bulgaria! I can to help you with property management, bookkeeping and other all that you need. Anastasia. Write me please to anastasia_burgas[at]abv.bg

Welcome, Welcome and Welcome Anastasia,
I'm sure if you are experienced in property management you will be able to throw some light on the mysterious subject of Technical Passports. Have you heard of them? Is it true that every building will eventually require one? What events (like change of ownership, renovation, change of use) can trigger the need to have one done? Can you arrange this and what type of company would you use to do it?

Ermmm titter titter snort...great web site

Blagodoya....I think lol

By the way Hungarian is much harder to learn than has been expressed although im a fast learner 50+ words in  year  !!

worldlywanderer wrote:

....There are, IMHO, two kinds of people in this world and they exist everywhere; the good and the bad. If you are incapable of identifying which is which then curl up and die.

Well, that suggestion condemns the majority of the human race to an early grave!

I am clearly a pretty bad judge of character as I rented my house in UK to a man who has since been sent to prison for 2 years. I have also come unstuck when using the services of professionals  recommended to me by people who I still trust and respect. Ever since I started my company I have had problems with accountants. basically, they take my money but don't do the accounts. I visited Bulgaria in 2011 to sort this out and that time I actually went with the accountant and witnessed certain stages of the process. The person in question had been recommended to me by an expat. who runs a campsite and hostel. For 2012 I sent money to the same accountant to do the accounts.
Earlier this year I contacted a lawyer, again recommended by my expat. friend. I asked him to transfer my property into my own name and wind up the company. He wanted 800 leva up front before he would start the work. He soon got back to me, saying there was a problem with my 2011 and 2012 accounts, they had not been published. He was talking about big fines to be paid and fees to do the accounts again. I decided it was not worth it and I would cancel the transfer / company closure process. I therefore asked the lawyer to keep his fee for the work he had started and refund me the rest. He has kept the full 800 leva so I consider that I've been ripped off by both of them now.
I wish I had never had anything to do with Bulgaria.

You have certainly been living in interesting times. Unfortunate though your experiences are they do emphasise how difficult it can be to distinguish between the two types of people who make up this world. Since I wrote the comment you quoted I have continued my research into buying a property in Bulgaria and know now even more clearly why my  decision to do nothing but research the market for six months was the right one.

One must have admiration and sympathy for the pioneers who reached Bulgaria before 2012 and had to set up a company in order to buy a property. Having researched the implications of doing this in several countries I know I would not be brave enough to buy property in the name of a company unless I had full control, understood the law relating to companies and could understand all of the forms in the original language.

Clearly, you fell foul of the need to employ a Bulgarian speaker who knew how to file the annual accounts. If your company was not trading this should be a simple process, indeed, a friend of mine, a non-Bulgarian speaker, has done his own for six years now by simply copying the entries from the first year into the appropriate spaces in subsequent year's forms. So far he has had no comeback so at least he can console himself with the thought that he can spend all of the money he would otherwise have paid to an accountant on fines should things go wrong.

You have also fallen foul of the complex, time consuming and expensive process of winding up a company. I don't think the eight hundred Leva fee was too extreme provided it included the government charges for winding up. The difficulty, as you quite clearly indicated related to the annual accounts.

Having been a landlord in the UK for some years I commiserate with your misfortune with your tenant there, it is something which can happen to any of us unless one makes credit checks, takes police reports and adequate references from previous landlords. All of that is time-consuming and eats into rental income which is why most of us take short cuts. In fifteen years I have lost sixty pound son a bounced cheque which would have been avoided if I had done a credit check, had to make repairs, amply covered by a deposit and exercised patience over the timing of rental payments a couple of times.

It must, at least, be a compensation that you had the good sense, unlike many who subscribed to the mantra "You are not really committed until you sell up everything in the UK" - I suspect many are now thinking that it was the believers in the mantra should have been committed.

I suggest all of these issue you faced in Bulgaria are about how one conducts business rather than an indication of total corruption of the entire nation. Business is difficult enough when conducted in one's own country and in one's own language - ask the thousands who try and fail every year. To attempt the same in a foreign land with a foreign language and in the case of Bulgaria an, at least initially, incomprehensible script is for people braver than me. I have been a member of boards of directors and run my own businesses and I would not attempt to run a business in a foreign language.

Some of the issues you mention are ones which will be faced by an increasing number of the early pioneers as they reach the point where they decide, for multifarious reasons to return to the UK or, if they see out their time here, by their heirs. It is possible to live for years with one's eyes closed or at least shaded by spectacles of a pink hue but ex-pats everywhere in the EU should make no mistake, they will be forced to deal with the difficult issues eventually.

I imagine many think they can simply walk away when they decide to leave Bulgaria for good. They should take a look at recent developments in Cyprus where people have been sued in Cyprus and the judgement has been enforced by UK courts.

Please do not feel I am attacking your comments or impugning your ability to conduct business. I have great respect for your candour and honesty and more people in your position should be telling their stories to warn the unwary. What you undertook in opening a company in a foreign country, using a foreign language and being advised by people you can only have known slightly was brave and I salute you as a pioneer. Before the wise amongst us cry out that they have successfully avoided all of the problems you have encountered remember the aphorism - There but by the grace of God!

There are no fines at all, I just helped 2 couples to do their financial report and tax return for 4 years.
The lawyer shouldn't tell you how much till he find out the other fees, notary, taxes etc.
I didn't change anything because my lawyer said it can cost me a fortune as we remodeled the house and it worth much more now so we and all our friends kept things like they were.

Have your friends heard from the tax authorities yet saying that there are definitely no fines?

Considering an earlier post did you employed an architect to redesign the house, submit your plans for approval and obtain the necessary building consent?

We use lawyers and accountants, they know the laws.

We didn't extend the house so no need of building permits, there is a formality to do for building a proper roof instead of the flat one on the barn but the builder takes care of it, it wasn't a big deal.

That seems to me a very sensible route to take as I understand that a renovation which does not change the structural walls does not require planning permission or building consent. Also, as you say, I can see why the process of changing from a flat to a pitched roof on the barn may need building consent but not planning permission. Just as well you did not change the use of the barn, however, as I understand a change of use triggers the need for planning consent and that means a technical passport, which I understand is an expensive business.

I take it from your silence that you don't know yet whether your friends are in the clear with the tax authorities?

The lawyer said the fines start at 2000 leva but I think he was referring to the fine for trying to close down a company with incomplete accounts records.
I did not imply that 800 leva was a high price for closing the company and I realise that some of it would go on taxes and court fees or whatever. I do think it an unreasonable sum for just checking the accounts status of my company and writing a couple of emails (which is what I actually got for my money).

I take it from your silence that you don't know yet whether your friends are in the clear with the tax authorities?

We use lawyers and accountants, they know the laws.
that's what I said on my post already.

[Moderated: no free ad on the forum pls]

Perhaps you do use lawyers and accountants but what you said, and the comment to which I referred was

"I just helped 2 couples to do their financial report and tax return for 4 years."

That says you helped them, not your lawyer or accountant. Not that I really wish to press the question but I also don't think your last response was an answer.

The two couples live in UK so helping them is get the stuff done for them

Having checked with the NRA I understnd that if you are foreigner buying property in Bulgaria and have not registered a Bulgarian company you are required to make a separate BULSTAT registration within 7 days of purchasing a property. This requirement has been effective since the 11th August 2005 when the BULSTAT Register Act came into effect. This is usually handled by the purchaser's solicitor but it is important to should check that this has been arranged as there are penalties for late registration.

What I have yet to discover is the cost and whether it is something one might handle oneself before the completion to avoid errors and perhaps even reduce cost.

Hi there
How nice of you, Now a days no one does anything for free. Yes we are looking for a 2 bedroom apartment in Varna, Burgas or north Black sea which the climate is warmer and is closer to Turkey and Greece. I will be retired in April and sweet part of me can say is semi retired. We thought Bulgaria would be Cheapest European country yet to live as pensioner. In your opinion do you think we can buy Reasonably priced 2 bed room apartment without getting ripped off by some estate agents? Look forward to hear from you soon. God blesse

Hello Hassan.  If you are looking at the Burgas end of Bulgaria and specifically for apartments then there are many choices dependant on whether you want to be in Burgas itself or outside on the traditional coastal areas (Sunny Beach, Nessebar, Pomorie, to the north of the city, or Sozopol, Primorsko, Lozenets to the South). The ideal situation is to be with 15 to 20 minutes drive of Burgas so you have access to all the important shops such as Carrefour, Metro, Lidel etc..).  Unfortunatley the apartment market does tend to be in the hands of the various estate agents who of course expect commission.  If you have the time to drive around the areas I have mentioned above you frequently see advertisments on the sides of apartment blocks indicating that flats are for sale, frequently directly by the owner (and often expats themselves). Again, if you have the time, you can identify the location of a suitable apartment on an agents site and then go an see if you can find the block yourself before approaching the agent - in many cases the property is not exclusive to one agent and if you can trace the owner then you can negotiate directly.  Needless to say, if you can leave the agent out of the equation it can save you a lot of money.    Good Luck.

hi i am thinking of buying a property in bulgaia of of ebay is there a chance i am being coned and what should i ask the sellers

They say the money should be payed no later than 5 days and that i would have to pay euro 500 for change of deeds is this correct the company is velikoproperty.com

many thanks

Lensta64 wrote:

hi i am thinking of buying a property in bulgaia of of ebay is there a chance i am being coned and what should i ask the sellers

They say the money should be payed no later than 5 days and that i would have to pay euro 500 for change of deeds is this correct the company is [link under review]

many thanks

That depends on the price. The notary fee and taxes is a percentage depending on Price declared on the deed.

hello everybody..
i would like to buy house or apartement for holiday house. the price around $5.000, the location not far from turkey boarder and close to blacksea.
need some information and advice also.

many thanks

robbie

Hi,
We all buy things on ebay without seeing but, Not house. Never leave your life earning and life savings for a house you have not seen or may not see it at all. ADVISE is DO NOT. I am in burgas to buy house too, but, It's too hard to find what I want for my budget..

Regards
Hassan

Hi Hassan 46
If you are interested in the Yambol area i might be able to help you find something.

Thanks mate. We have some viewing appointments let us see what happens. What is the weather like in winter in Yambol?  Please note down my number in Bulgaria 0876443275.

Regards

Hassan