Buying property in Hungary

Dear Christine,
The answer is it is not difficult if you have a good and trustable lawyer who will help you (due dilligence, checking all utilities bills and ownership documents, prepare all docmuments with translation in english / french or your native language..
i recommend a good one : Dr Norbert Sarrang tel 06 302 640294
best regards,
sebastien

Thanks for your contribution Sébastien!

Harmonie.

hello Christine, Daniel here. I am Italian(so EU citizen don't know if it's different for non EU but can find out), and happened to have bought a property 3 weeks ago, haven't moved in just yet but at least I can sum up for you what you should do. For obvious reasons I'm gonna skip the bits concerning searching for a suitable property, that's all down to you .
Said that I worked extensively in real estate (not in Hungary though)so if I can be of assistance feel free to ask.
Now first thing first, like the previous posting, the lawyer. It's good to have a trusted one, but especially if you're new in town and don't know many people it could pose a problem. Beware, most estate agency have their own lawyer (if you buy through agency), but in Hungary unlike other countries agencies work on behalf of the seller (whom they charge from 2 to 4% of the sale price, the buyer shouldn't be charged), they might as well be honest but i suggest having an independent one, who's gonna work in your interest only (lawyers charge from 0.5 to 1.5%, those who speak foreign languages are of course, more pricey!!).
Sebastien provided already a name, I also have one but I don't want to post his number without his permission. He speaks English, is very trustworthy (is my ex's old schoolmate)and charges 1.5%.
Most agencies or your lawyer will supply contract in English or other language of your choice, especially the major ones. Now once you set your eyes on a property, you've agreed the price with the vendor, and have raised sufficient funds (most banks will provide no more than 70pct, depending on your situation)then:

1. Your lawyer will ensure, through the land registry, that the property doesn't have any "lien" (legal claim of one person upon the property of another person) on it, it's in the vendor's name and no one else (if he/she is divorced for example you must ensure the former partner doesn't have any rights, lawyers know it anyway but it's good to show them you're aware!)

1. You sign a the contract and you'll give a deposit of 10pct to the vendor to "block" the property, either in cash or in the lawyer's account. This way if the vendor changes his mind he will return your 10pct + another 10pct. If you're the one bailing out instead, you'll lose your deposit. When signing you will also agree the date you'll transfer the rest of the funds and will take possession officially. If the property is occupied this will give enough time to free it up, but even if it's empty it's advisable to proceed this way, so if there's an impediment you can rectify it.

2. Once signed the contract your lawyer will put your name in the land registry as "buyer" so it cannot be sold to someone else in the meantime.

3. Once the time agreed has passed, you will transfer the rest of the funds.
On the same day you're gonna get the keys (which should be the same day you transfer the rest of the sum) before completing the transaction you'll go to the property and read all the meters (water, gas, electricity) and then go to the various offices with those numbers (an incredible pain in the
backside I know!!)
And (of utmost importance!!) you'll check with the building's caretaker/administrator (if it's an apartment in a block of flats)that the common expenses have been paid. Whilst utility companies if you don't pay will suspend their services, often these expenses are unpaid for some time, and it's hard to enforce its payment.
Sorted all this, you will go to the bank and make the final transfer, and, well, the property's yours!! Now I haven't done this last bit, still waiting for my vendor to move out but this is how it should work.
Being 1st of jan, still a bit hungover from last night's excesses I might have forgotten something, if so feel free to ask on this forum or, in case i don't check it regularly (I don't in fact) my mail is [email protected]. I don't think what I said is inaccurate, however should I discover so I will contact you immediately to inform you. Well now...good luck!!cheers
Dan

how much an apartment would be costing in nice central budapest?
i am searching for one around district 7. I dont mind other areas but it should be peaceful and free from troubles. i own a flat in district 7 and really liked the area because it is so near to city centre. (i was in budapest 2 months ago)

and found that it is the right time to buy property because prices are cheap.

Somewhat dated (I don't think EU nationals need a permit anymore), but most major issues still at least somewhat relevant:

http://www.budapest-tourist-guide.com/b … apest.html

I am considering purchasing a property in Hungary. Am I right in thinking that once you find a place you like, you agree a price with the vendor. Then your lawyer requests permission from the Land Registry and THEN you put down the deposit?

Also - if you don't need a mortgage to buy a property, do you still have to get permission from the land registry?

Would appreciate anyone's help on this!
Thanks

BG101 wrote:

I am considering purchasing a property in Hungary. Am I right in thinking that once you find a place you like, you agree a price with the vendor. Then your lawyer requests permission from the Land Registry and THEN you put down the deposit?

Also - if you don't need a mortgage to buy a property, do you still have to get permission from the land registry?

Would appreciate anyone's help on this!
Thanks

I'm not entirely sure about Hungary, but in Austria (which is probably the same), you need to put down a deposit (10%) with the lawyer which is refunded if say, permission is not granted (for example) or the seller has some other issue like they do not actually own the property. You lose the deposit if you (as a buyer) pulls out. 

I believe permission is given by the local government and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (for non-EU nationals) and not the land registry (which simply refers to the local government/MoFA).

If you are an EU/EEA national, any permissions are totally a formality which apply to everyone - Hungarians alike.

Great - thanks for that information.

Can anyone recommend an good English speaking lawyer? I've seen the one recommended in an earlier post, but I'm keen to get more than one name, and that post was quite old.

Also, when making an offer, is there a specific percentage of the asking price that it's acceptable to offer? I don't want to be played just because I'm a foreigner.

Thanks in anticipation!

BG101 wrote:

.....Also, when making an offer, is there a specific percentage of the asking price that it's acceptable to offer? I don't want to be played just because I'm a foreigner...!

As a foreigner you'll probably be ripped off. The perception is that foreigners are loaded.

My own opinion is that property prices are simply what the owner needs for whatever reason and bear no real relation to market values. There's a lot of emotional attachment to propery in Hungary and it's not seen as a commodity.

I think probably house prices are overvalued by about 50% at least for all sorts of reasons. You could try a very low offer, then see if they tell you to go away (and probably quite nastily if they get offended).

Personally I think it's not unrealistic to get a 25-30% reduction in the price as a foreigner and probably even more if you are local but it will depend very much on the propery and the sellers attitude.

BTW, the lawyer will want about 3% of the purchase price as his/her fee. I find that a bit ridiculous because the work is the same whatever the value of the house. Fixed fees make more sense.

I need a help to find a good deal to buy one roon apartment near city center Budapest. Since i am foreigner and dont know Budapest quite well, i afraid to put my money in wrong areas or over priced flat. My budget is around 50 k euro which i hope to get the very best value apartment for this money. I need to be able to rent it or sell it at any time with some profit ir at least get my money back without long waiting. I hope i woukd get recommendations and advices from this forum which i disperately need them

sherif1986 wrote:

I need to be able to rent it or sell it at any time with some profit ir at least get my money back without long waiting.

Its a buyer market there so obviously what you have as advantage when you will buy you have as disadvantage when you wanna sell. I mean low prices and big choice of flats for sale.

Renting out without long waiting might work out. Selling definitely not.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The perception is that foreigners are loaded.

In some places, if you look at it relatively, from the Hungarian perspective, many are.

For example: Where I live, in the country side, incomes are very depressed. I know more than one Hungarian who makes 200 Euro or less a month, working full time. The "lucky" ones make between 300-500 Euro a month. Their main ability to survive is the fact they own their home/apartment free and clear thus pay no rent or mortgage.

And this also helps in part to explain why many do not see property as a commodity, but as rather an essential life sustaining necessity. Everyone I know who sells property here has more than one property (usually acquired via the death of a relative). They are typically only selling the non-essential parcels.

BG101 wrote:

I am considering purchasing a property in Hungary. Am I right in thinking that once you find a place you like, you agree a price with the vendor. Then your lawyer requests permission from the Land Registry and THEN you put down the deposit?

Also - if you don't need a mortgage to buy a property, do you still have to get permission from the land registry?

Would appreciate anyone's help on this!
Thanks

Hi there,
Maybe I can help - I bought an apartment in Budapest less than a year ago. Basically you need a good lawyer, who'll arrange everything for you. Typically, the process goes something like this:
- you identify a property of interest
- you obtain the exact address of the property, and your lawyer will check its legal status for you (property deeds, which the lawyer will be able to obtain from the Land Registry)
- if the lawyer finds no red flags, you make a formal offer. This is usually a standard form that real estate agencies have; you state your intention of purchasing the property for a given price, and leave a deposit with the real estate agent. Again, ideally your lawyer should check the paperwork before you sign, but this is a routine procedure. If you withdraw your offer, you'll lose the deposit, while if the owner won't sell you the property, he/she will be liable to you for an amount larger than the deposit (3 times the deposit, if I remember correctly).
- you sign the sales contract in the presence of your lawyer. Terms will depend on your particular situation; in the simplest case, you sign the contract, complete payment (I transferred the money from the office of my lawyer) and your lawyer will take care of the rest
- your lawyer registers your name on the property deeds - the property is now officially yours
- you pay stamp duty (a letter is sent out to you or your lawyer usually after a few weeks after the transaction, specifying the amount and ways to pay)

As you can tell, the lawyer is critical. I found one browsing through the offers online and I was lucky; she was completely professional, very knowledgeable and helpful and worth every penny. Let me know if you'd like her contact details and I'll send them to you in private.
Basically, with a good/helpful lawyer, you just focus on selecting the property, your lawyer does the rest and instructs you all the way.
Be careful with the real estate firms and the contracts they ask you to sign before they show you an apartment. I've heard some nasty stories. Go with the big, reputable companies. I've had a positive experience with Duna House and Otthon Centrum. It's also worth checking out the property management companies, which sometimes have interesting offers.

P.S. On the negotiation margin. Someone mentioned 25-30%. Based on my experience, that is completely unrealistic. In downtown Budapest, the average negotiation margin for apartments advertised by the larger agencies (see above), is between 5 and 10%. From what I've seen, 10% would be a good deal. That doesn't mean that the apartment you're interested in won't be 15% cheaper in a year; it simply means that vendors tend to add around 5-10% to their target price to obtain the asking price.
More importantly, visit enough properties to get a feel of the market. After a while, you'll have a pretty good idea of the relative value of the properties you've seen, so the margin of negotiation will not be critical (e.g. I got less than 10% off from the asking price, but I still think that I got a good deal)

sherif1986 wrote:

I need a help to find a good deal to buy one roon apartment near city center Budapest. Since i am foreigner and dont know Budapest quite well, i afraid to put my money in wrong areas or over priced flat. My budget is around 50 k euro which i hope to get the very best value apartment for this money. I need to be able to rent it or sell it at any time with some profit ir at least get my money back without long waiting. I hope i woukd get recommendations and advices from this forum which i disperately need them

50k will buy you a one room apartment in district V. I would say that, especially for a small apartment, district V is your safest bet for finding tenants/buyers, if need be.

sandjo wrote:

P.S. On the negotiation margin. Someone mentioned 25-30%. Based on my experience, that is completely unrealistic. In downtown Budapest, the average negotiation margin for apartments advertised by the larger agencies (see above), is between 5 and 10%. From what I've seen, 10% would be a good deal.

It was me who said 25-30%. I think it's true for many places outside of Budapest and in the villages which is really what I was referring to. Inside Budapest, particularly apartments I think are more of a commodity and therefore closer to the selling price.

In villages etc you see properties that are on sale for years and years. If the sellers dropped their prices they would almost certainly attract more buyers. In that sense, they are all overpriced and my guess is overpriced by 25-30% minimum. I would go even further - Mrs Fluffy hears from her wide network of contacts anecdotes of up to 40%+ price reductions on village properties.

Thanks  for that. It's a useful clarification, as I might be looking for a countryside property as well in the future. I was only referring to the inner districts of Budapest, my personal experience is limited to that.
I would imagine that, in the countryside, the negotiation margin would also be influenced by how desirable the area is (e.g. narrower around Balaton)?

sandjo wrote:

I would imagine that, in the countryside, the negotiation margin would also be influenced by how desirable the area is (e.g. narrower around Balaton)?

I live near the Balaton. You will be usually provided a much higher price than market value from the land owner. So yes, the final negotiated price can be 20% or more than the first price the property owner asked, since it was already outrageous. Other times, the property owner will not budget on the price one Forint (even if the price is outrageous).

However, the negotiation margin is not really that germane. In the end, whatever range in which you negotiate, the final price will still probably leave you paying far over market value.

The reason? There are still just enough people that buy property here, with enough money to not care if they far over pay for property. This use to be mostly Germans and Austrians. Lately it has been the nouveau riche Hungarians from Budapest. Which is why many properties sit here for years with an "Elado" (for sale) sign. Just waiting for such a buyer. One property down our road had an Elado sign for 10 years. The asking price was simply too high. The property owner died with that sign up. There are still some deals to be had, but you either have to get lucky or "know someone".

Note: I am not saying this either "right" or "wrong", simply saying this is the way it is.

klsallee wrote:

I live near the Balaton. The negotiation margin is not really germane. You will be offered a much higher price than market value. So whatever range in which you negotiate will still probably leave you paying far over market value....

Absolutely right in Balaton. The difference between being on the edge of the lake and being 200m away is quite surprising. Old adage applies: Location, Location, Location.

On the other hand, when the going gets tough, Balaton houses become an unnecessary luxury. I believe many houses there have multiple owners who have acquired the property through inheritance and any one of them can stick up a for sale sign.

The problem with Balaton for me is the short season and last year, the very low water level which was really bad. I hope it will be considerably better this year what with all the stored up water in the snow that arrived last night.

Thanks so much Sandjo, that's really useful information - I really appreciate the detail - this whole process is very complicated! And I will send you a PM about getting the lawyer's contacts.

Just to clarify about the deposit: I thought that you put down a small amount (1%) when you complete the Real Estate form to make your offer. And then once that offer is accepted you put down another 10% or so. Have I misunderstood? Also, is there a set % for the deposit, or do you agree this with the Estate Agent / seller? Also, have long should you leave the offer on the table for, I've heard 3 days and 8 days mentioned.

Many thanks

fluffy2560 wrote:

Absolutely right in Balaton. The difference between being on the edge of the lake and being 200m away is quite surprising. Old adage applies: Location, Location, Location.

Correct. Some people here may think you are being facetious with 200 meters, but you are actually completely accurate.

fluffy2560 wrote:

The problem with Balaton for me is the short season

The official start and ends dates of the "summer season" at the Balaton lacks both logic and good business sense. Of course, many beaches are controlled by the local government, so that may explain these deficiencies.

Of course my reply is a bit

BG101 wrote:

Thanks so much Sandjo, that's really useful information - I really appreciate the detail - this whole process is very complicated! And I will send you a PM about getting the lawyer's contacts.

Just to clarify about the deposit: I thought that you put down a small amount (1%) when you complete the Real Estate form to make your offer. And then once that offer is accepted you put down another 10% or so. Have I misunderstood? Also, is there a set % for the deposit, or do you agree this with the Estate Agent / seller? Also, have long should you leave the offer on the table for, I've heard 3 days and 8 days mentioned.

Many thanks

You're welcome, glad I can help. Indeed, the process is fairly confusing, and the fact that I have a Hungarian heritage (so I speak some Hungarian) didn't help that much. At the same time, the right lawyer will guide you through the process - I basically ran everything through my lawyer.
You're right about the small deposit when signing the Real Estate form - I believe it was 1%. Once the offer is accepted, the way you proceed depends on your particular situation and your lawyer. My lawyer advised me to finalize the transaction in a single day, since it makes things easier and less risky (i.e. the sooner your name is on the property deeds, the better). However, the vendor failed to submit all the required documents to my lawyer in time (utility status and energy certification), so my lawyer split the payment in two, with the second half conditional on her getting all the missing documents. So my case was a bit different, but I did hear that putting down about 10% was fairly common. Again, these are details that your lawyer will advise you on, as they basically relate to the vendor producing all the necessary documentation and your lawyer ok-ing them (if the vendor takes your offer and brings all the paperwork, there is no impediment for you to sign the contract and get the keys on the same day).
The 3 to 8 days timeframe depends, again, on your particular situation. The vendor of my apartment was Irish, I was also flying in from abroad, so we agreed on a longer deadline for a contract to be signed; I can't remember exactly, but it was a few weeks. But I've heard real estate agents mention 3 days, so I guess it's anything from 3 days to whatever you ask for.
Oh, and just to emphasize again, all this relates to buying an apartment (in my case in downtown Budapest); things might be quite different when buying a house/land, but other posters here are certainly better informed in that area.

That part about house prices being based on how much money the seller needs is so true!
I regard most "For sale" property to be in the same category as my house: If someone walks in the door with a suitcase full of cash, about 2-3 times the reasonable market price, we are moving out within 24 hours :-)
(the difference being I do not hang out a sharpie-on-cardboard "for sale" sign :-) )

Thank you Sandjo for the valuable advice. I am a bit shocked with the complication of the process. If you don't mind, I will be willing to get the lawyer contact in case you think he has done the job the way it suppose to be done for you. I will pm for this in case you don't mind.

Just a question, ve u bought ur apartment in district V as well

Interesting stuff. My own experience bears out some of the comments here. The house I bought was from a young woman whos marriage had failed and she was left with the house and mortgage. I offered about 14% less than the asking price and this was accepted. I had previously made an offer of a similar reduction from the asking price on a different house which had been rejected. I think the first one was for sale due to bereavement and probably had no mortgage so the family could afford to wait for a better price.

sherif1986 wrote:

Just a question, ve u bought ur apartment in district V as well

Yes, right on the edge of district V. It's the most desirable (read, expensive) district in the Pest side of Budapest, followed by parts of districts VI and VII.

To those who wrote me for my lawyer's contact details. I just heard from her, and there's good and bad news. The good news is she's expecting. The bad news... she'll be unavailable for a while. She has recommended a (new) colleague of hers from the same law firm. I've never met this particular lawyer though, so I can't really vouch for her. If you're still interested, let me know and I'll pass her contact details on to you. Sorry about this (I also needed my lawyer's help on something); although I can't really feel bad for someone expecting. Oh well

BG101, you asked about the red flags. You're right, they relate to the vendor. In my case, my lawyer found out that the vendor was registered with unpaid taxes, so she wanted to complete the transaction quickly, to prevent a scenario where the tax office could have blocked the sale. Most likely there was never a significant risk of that - the tax owed was fairly small , but this is the type of issues that you need a good lawyer for.

Thanks for all the posts here, it has been very useful for someone like me who is thinking about buying in Hungary. I am wondering if you guys know any good English language websites where Hungarian properties for sale are listed?

If yes would you please share some links? It is really difficult to find trustworthy placed where genuine listings are posted.
Even large sites like rightmove has lots of property listing but the agents never reply your questions. Some of them have really unprofessional looking websites that often not functioning at all.

thanks
Jess

Hey everyone


I bought 2 houses in the outskirt of Hungary in 2012. Now I am thinking about buying a few flats in the downtown area of Budapest.
I have an agency who is helping me out and so far they seem like they know what they are doing. Basically I don't have to do much since they do everything for me. However I found the lawyer fee a little too high so I called a few other lawyers and in general their rates can very. So I guess there are no mistakes there.
Anyhow, you can write them an e-mail with any of your questions and I am sure they will get back to you like they did to me. [email protected]
I am not saying that they are the best out there, but I am saying that they have helped me enough for me to trust them. Its worth your time just to send a mail and see what they can help you with. That does not cost anything but a few minutes of your time
I hope I could help

Hi Jason Drews,

Welcome to Expat.com

Really nice of you to post and share your experiences on the Forum

Please note that this thread is a bit old.. feel free to start a new thread on the Hungary Forum to share information or for any questions for better visibility and more interaction

Thank you

Maximilien
Expat-blog Team

I hear the moratorium on foreclosures on debt laden CHF (Swiss Franc) mortgages will end in April 2014. If anyone knows anything about buying property in foreclosure, I'd be grateful for some info.  In particular, the procedures by banks (auctions, legal process, risks etc). TIA.

fluffy2560 wrote:

I hear the moratorium on foreclosures on debt laden CHF (Swiss Franc) mortgages will end in April 2014. If anyone knows anything about buying property in foreclosure, I'd be grateful for some info.  In particular, the procedures by banks (auctions, legal process, risks etc). TIA.

1) Consult a real estate agent. Such as:

https://www.expat.com/en/business/europ … al-estate/

2) Ask the banks directly, that have mortgages, about their mortgaged properties and what sale terms they expect to use. Contact their home offices in their original countries as well if you wish (Austria and Germany mostly).

3) Assuming the government does not extend this moratorium before April 6th, for obvious reasons I don't think I need to speak out.

klsallee wrote:

...
1) Consult a real estate agent. Such as:

https://www.expat.com/en/business/europ … al-estate/

I'm afraid to say that real estate agents in HU are amateurs and the procedure of foreclosure seems to be very opaque. I'd like to hear from "the field".   The concept of liens in property is a complex matter, even for lawyers. I reckon the "discount" on foreclosed property is probably 50-60%.

klsallee wrote:

...
2) Ask the banks directly, that have mortgages, about their mortgaged properties and what sale terms they expect to use. Contact their home offices in their original countries as well if you wish (Austria and Germany mostly).

Done that, been there. It seems relatively disorganised compared to the well developed markets in UK or USA.  Seems to be variably opaque for different banks.  CBA  has online auctions, but only for commercial property, not residential as far as I know. 

klsallee wrote:

...
3) Assuming the government does not extend this moratorium before April 6th, for obvious reasons I don't think I need to speak out.

Yes, with the impending election, whoever is in power will have to deal with it afterwards.  Last year, a Croatian court basically told the banks they were guilty of misselling (i.e. misrepresentation) and mortgages in CHF had to be converted to local currency with fixed rate interest rates.  However that argument was rejected here but I believe the HU Constitutional Court is still examining if the HU government can invalidate the loans.  I think there's $15 Billion in duff loans out there.  It's a financial bomb waiting to explode.  Banks will be wanting to leave here in droves. I suspect all real estate with CHF loans cannot be foreclosed until after the election April.  It will be messing up progress in the real estate market.

fluffy2560 wrote:

the procedure of foreclosure seems to be very opaque

Of course it is opaque. It is Hungary. Much of my time dealing with the bureaucracy in Hungary is simply to get a firm commitment from some authority or another on some legal point of Hungarian law. It can take months, if not years (not kidding on the "years" bit) to clarify issues. Before I came along I even wonder at times if anyone even asked the questions I do as it takes so long for the bureaucracy to research my questions. They are getting better at it, and lately some answers do come faster.

If you did the research as I suggested, then you are in the game and there is little more knowledge to provide other than "get to know a "guy" who can "help" you"**. Contacts and relations are more important in Hungary than western "knowing the market" approaches.

Best of luck.

** In some parts of the USA, it is similar.

klsallee wrote:

....... It can take months, if not years (not kidding on the "years" bit) to clarify issues. Before I came along I even wonder at times if anyone even asked the questions I do as it takes so long for the bureaucracy to research my questions. They are getting better at it, and lately some answers do come faster.

If you did the research as I suggested, then you are in the game and there is little more knowledge to provide other than "get to know a "guy" who can "help" you"**. Contacts and relations are more important in Hungary than western "knowing the market" approaches.

Yes, indeed.  This is no way to run a railroad. 

Knowing a guy helps but often even when you actually know a guy, weeding out the flakes or charlatans takes some effort.  It sometimes comes down to Johnny Foreigner needing to be relieved of his cash, even if this means circumventing the legal process. 

I've been looking into this sort of property acquistion since last year. Even my lawyer doesn't know how it works properly. I am not sure anyone really does.  It's also a rough subject, buying up foreclosed (aka discount) property. These were once people's homes and "benefitting" from their misfortune (my view is the auction price is the real price anyway, not the real estate agent's price). But all this is capitalism, another story. Some people here still think Marx has something to say on the subject. I mean Karl, not Groucho.

fluffy2560 wrote:

This is no way to run a railroad.

That basically sums it up.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Even my lawyer doesn't know how it works properly. I am not sure anyone really does.

Hungarian laws are often poorly drafted or ambiguous. No one seems to understand them. Not even the courts, it seems. I am beginning to suspect that is planned, as it makes relying on "some guy" with a rubber stamp more important than individuals being able to clearly see their legal rights (and thus increases opportunities for authoritarianism, corruption and personal enrichment for TPTB). But that also makes business in Hungary uncertain. Uncertainty is ends up being a social, business and economy killer.

http://www.politics.hu/20140203/survey- … certainty/

fluffy2560 wrote:

Groucho.

Given the comedy of errors world wide, I think Groucho may indeed have the last say.

klsallee wrote:

......But that also makes business in Hungary uncertain. Uncertainty is ends up being a social, business and economy killer.

http://www.politics.hu/20140203/survey- … certainty/

Too right.  It's not just here. I was in Romania and when faced with a question over the price of a contract services, they said they couldn't say what it would cost because laws are so uncertain, they could only estimate the final price. Who would sign anything under those conditions?

klsallee wrote:

Given the comedy of errors world wide, I think Groucho may indeed have the last say.

Yes, Groucho was at least amusing.  If Karl was still around, I expect he'd be tried for crimes against humanity, along with Trotsky, Lenin and George Dubya.

fluffy2560 wrote:

Even my lawyer doesn't know how it works properly. I am not sure anyone really does..

Slightly off topic, since it relates to a different country, but a timely article today shows even in the US people are not sure what is going on regarding mortgages and foreclosures:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/ … e-more/?hp

klsallee wrote:

....Slightly off topic, since it relates to a different country, but a timely article today shows even in the US people are not sure what is going on regarding mortgages and foreclosures:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/ … e-more/?hp

I'd have thought it was pretty clear in legal terms how it works in USA. It certainly is in the UK which has had many episodes of misselling of every type of insurance (mortgages can be insurance policies).