Orfi risks - married in home country

The reason we didn't get the divorced yet, is because I am waiting for him to apply for another residence permit, since he is from a country outside of the EU and his current permit is based off of being married to me.

You've just admitted what could be seen as immigration fraud. Probably not that great an idea.

Am I doing something illegal, if I get an Orfi contract with my Egyptian boyfriend and I am still married in Denmark?

As I understand it, an orfi has no force in law anywhere (It's, I'm informed, known as a sex licence) so it may not be a matter of legality, more local points of view.
I gather these are handy as they generally stop the local cops arresting you but, if it's known you're married in another country, they might take a dim view as even a local sex licence could be considered invalid in that case.
The potential issue is down to religion, something commonly taken seriously in Arabic countries. The orfi is a religious marriage so, if people find out you lied to the almighty, they could get very shirty, and that could leave you in big trouble.

Your legal husband could possibly, if he's that way inclined, use this new marriage as excuse for the breakdown in your existing marriage and try to use that as reason to stay in your home country.

All ways around, it may be a bad idea, but perhaps local members have a different view.

Sending you a PM

How could the cops there possibly find out that I am legally married in my home country?

There is no problem with my legal husband, and he can't use my situation to stay in the country.

The ORFI contract is a purely Egyptian invention to give Egyptians the possibility +/- to have sex outside official marriage. And what's good with local women or foreigners.

Now as I said on your other topic. You are an adult, so take your responsibilities. But you give every opportunity to your future ex-husband to take advantage of the situation ...

https://www.advodan.com/private/divorce/

phipiemar wrote:

Now as I said on your other topic. You are an adult, so take your responsibilities. But you give every opportunity to your future ex-husband to take advantage of the situation ...

I don't get what you mean that he can take advantage of the situation. We agree on the divorce. I mean the only thing we don't agree on, is when. I want it now, but he can't do it till January. I feel awful still being married to him, but if I try and apply for divorce now, he won't accept, and then the process will be longer and more costly.. So I just have to wait, I don't have another choice.

For I will clarify as you seem to not really understand the remark.

You are Danish, your husband is Egyptian. You decided to divorce, not him according to your statement. A divorce can be done to the wrongs of a person. As a result, the other can derive some financial benefits ...

phipiemar wrote:

For I will clarify as you seem to not really understand the remark.

You are Danish, your husband is Egyptian. You decided to divorce, not him according to your statement. A divorce can be done to the wrongs of a person. As a result, the other can derive some financial benefits ...

Then you have understood my situation wrong. My legal husband is not Egyptian. I have an Egyptian boyfriend, and he is the one I want to be with. He is the one I want to obtain the Orfi with.

Melissa00 wrote:

How could the cops there possibly find out that I am legally married in my home country?

Don't worry how, it's only IF that matters.
Basically,  it's a bloody silly thing to do.

In Islam, it ain't allowed for women to be married from 2 men at the same time "I'm not sure but I think this is common for the monotheistic religions"
So, I think u might face problem if cops know about that "IF someone tells them or by any chance they know about ur situation"
ORFI is become a legal marriage recently but the only matter is the wife won't have any rights from the husband's side in case of any problems "divorce or legacy" but the children normally have the all rights
May I be curious if I ask u why ORFI "away from ur 1st marriage issue"!!! why u don't marry via the normal marriage here!

Manal Essa wrote:

In Islam, it ain't allowed for women to be married from 2 men at the same time "I'm not sure but I think this is common for the monotheistic religions"
So, I think u might face problem if cops know about that "IF someone tells them or by any chance they know about ur situation"
ORFI is become a legal marriage recently but the only matter is the wife won't have any rights from the husband's side in case of any problems "divorce or legacy" but the children normally have the all rights
May I be curious if I ask u why ORFI "away from ur 1st marriage issue"!!! why u don't marry via the normal marriage here!

Orfi, a legal marriage? From what I have read, it is only a legal marriage if we go to the Ministry of Justice in Cairo?

I would love to marry in the legal way, when we have known each other longer and when I am completely out the 1st marriage.

phipiemar wrote:

The ORFI contract is a purely Egyptian invention to give Egyptians the possibility +/- to have sex outside official marriage. And what's good with local women or foreigners.

Your statement is actually not at all true....  It's real name is Nikah and in Islam it is the contract of marriage between a man and a woman.... An Islamic Marriage contract.
It is used in many Islamic countries in conjunction with a civil ceremony. In Egypt some Egyptians still only marry by this way as they also do in other cultures too. Turkey for example.

However, it is called an 'Orfi' in places like Hurghada and Sharm and used as a means for Egyptian men to 'Marry' foreigners for either brief affairs or in many cases serious relationships. It is still a Nikah though.

It is not a legally binding document and cannot be registered. Only a civil marriage can be registered.

Orfi, the sex licence marriage also known as a temporary marriage, is commonly carried out and accepted in many countries but has no legal power at all, only religious. It's not Nikah as in a real marriage.
However, if the lady is already married, it would be invalid in Islam, that potentially leaving the her (and perhaps the man) in serious trouble. From memory so prone to error,  I believe the maximum sanction is two years in prison.

Can the lady carry out an orfi? Yes because it's unlikely anyone will check and she probably won't need paperwork, especially if she can find a bent imam

Does that have any legal standing? No

Would it be valid in Islam, thus likely protecting her from punishment? No

Is there a possibility her legal husband could use it against her for possible gain? Yes

If the legal husband does use it and that exposes her sham marriage for immigration at home, that could also leave her in legal trouble there.

As I said, it's a really bad idea.

Fred wrote:

Can the lady carry out an orfi? Yes because it's unlikely anyone will check and she probably won't need paperwork, especially if she can find a bent imam

Does that have any legal standing? No

Would it be valid in Islam, thus likely protecting her from punishment? No

Is there a possibility her legal husband could use it against her for possible gain? Yes

If the legal husband does use it and that exposes her sham marriage for immigration at home, that could also leave her in legal trouble there.

As I said, it's a really bad idea.

Hi Fred

I'm not sure where you get your info from but you are not entirely correct in the information you are providing here.
If a foreigner gets married by the Islamic way it cannot be performed by an Imam - that can only happen between 2 Muslims so no one would need to find a 'bent' Imam - btw that statement is quite offensive to a Muslim!

In Egypt  foreigners and Egyptians  using 'orfi' marriage is so common and the officials turn a blind eye to it.
All you need is 2 male witnesses and a stamp from a lawyer. It cannot be registered.
As I stated in my previous comment the correct name for an Islamic Marriage contract is a Nikah. A ceremony is conducted by an Imam.... they still usually get a civil marriage but not in all cases.

I am married, and have been for many years, to an Egyptian Muslim man, so I am getting my info from him and also a mutual friend that is a lawyer in Egypt.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

Hi Fred.

Hi

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

I'm not sure where you get your info from but you are not entirely correct in the information you are providing here.
If a foreigner gets married by the Islamic way it cannot be performed by an Imam - that can only happen between 2 Muslims so no one would need to find a 'bent' Imam

Orfi is a form of temporary Islamic marriage, not a real one, just a sex enabling sham.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

a 'bent' Imam - btw that statement is quite offensive to a Muslim

Bugger - I'm offending myself. Of course there are corrupt imams, just as there are corrupt pretty much everything else

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

In Egypt  foreigners and Egyptians  using 'orfi' marriage is so common and the officials turn a blind eye to it.

So I understand, but it still has no force as a married woman can't take another husband. If she gets founds out, it could mean trouble.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

the correct name for an Islamic Marriage contract is a Nikah. A ceremony is conducted by an Imam.... they still usually get a civil marriage but not in all cases.

A nikah is a marriage, a real one, but orfi or temp marriages are so called because they aren't a proper marriage, less so in this case because the woman is already married, even though she's explained that's just an immigration sham.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

I am married, and have been for many years, to an Egyptian Muslim man, so I am getting my info from him .

Congratulations, but I suspect you don't have a second husband as the OP does. That sort of makes a difference.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

also a mutual friend that is a lawyer in Egypt.

I have absolutely no trust in lawyers because most of them will say anything that will stuff some cash in their pockets, in this case, to facilitate a marriage that would be illegal under Islamic law and has the possibility of serious consequences.
That, whilst true, is offensive to lawyers.

I forgot to mention that, ORFI can be legal only if u documented it at "Mortgage warden" in this case, it will be totally legal even if it is still ORFI, as a wife you will have all the rights
but the question is, why you have to go through that, you can marry in the normal way "away from your situation"

Manal Essa wrote:

I forgot to mention that, ORFI can be legal only if u documented it at "Mortgage warden" in this case, it will be totally legal even if it is still ORFI, as a wife you will have all the rights
but the question is, why you have to go through that, you can marry in the normal way "away from your situation"

I believe the lady has to be either single or divorced, that not being the case here.

Tigerlily3103 wrote:

phipiemar wrote:

It is not a legally binding document and cannot be registered. Only a civil marriage can be registered.

No, ORFI can register normally but for Nekah, it happens for a limited period "and by the way most of Muslims still do not accord it"

actually nowaday civil marriage become so widely, as I notice marriage between foreign man  "non-Muslim" and Muslim woman and I think you can go through it instead of ORFI or mix between them...named it ORFI but register it

Fred wrote:

Manal Essa wrote:

I forgot to mention that, ORFI can be legal only if u documented it at "Mortgage warden" in this case, it will be totally legal even if it is still ORFI, as a wife you will have all the rights
but the question is, why you have to go through that, you can marry in the normal way "away from your situation"

I believe the lady has to be either single or divorced, that not being the case here.

yes, you are right, and this for any register marriage here

You shouldn't get married unless divorced from your husband , and stay 3 months after the divorce. That is the islamic religion rules.
Although it may be legal for the Egyptian government.

Melissa,
***

@Diva14

English please. This is an Anglophone forum.

I thought I would give you guys an update.. After a lot of back and forth with the person I'm legally married to, I finally got him to get the divorce. We applied for it, and now just waiting for it to go through. Hopefully soon!

CeolaO wrote:

No one can judge you but God.

Goodluck!!!!

Tell that to judges.

However, as the lady appears to have her divorce on the way, and assuming that is completed before the orfi, the risks are exactly the same as any other 'plastic' marriage.